according to testimony from cassidy hutchison, he relaid to hutchison explosive account on his plan totorm the capitol that day. now with the new correspondence that they obtained, by tomorrow we may have conclusive evidence about what exactly donald trump was trying to do and with whom on january 6th. joining us now is jacqueline alamaney for "the washington post" and one reporter who broke this story. jackie, thank you so much for being here tonight to talk us through this. >> thanks for having me. >> so first off, can you tell us more about how the committee got its hands on these secret service -- the secret service correspondence? it sounds like it's a lot of material and up until this point there is a real question about how cooperative the service was being with this investigation. >> yeah. that is a really good place to start. as my colleague and i outlined in our piece, it was sort of an ironic twist of events. the committee came to believe, the especially i had the lawmakers on the committee investigating the january 6 attack that the secret service ultimately was not being c

and then everything they presented after that, including the statement from cassidy hutchison which we can't let anyone know that we lost. the idea that you couldn't just call people connected to the supreme court. the incredible video montage that congressman luria did where you juxtaposed what the president was saying publicly with what he was being told by the attorney general barr. what he was told by the deputy attorney general, donahue. and what was completely told factually was wrong. repeating the opposite. if you zoom out from that i think the key here is for the american people it's really a question of are they so enamored with authoritarianism that they are going to vote for people who are election deniers and continue to support donald trump and or the not narrow constituency of the department just. this is merrick garland going to pull the trigger post the midterms and, you know, my bet on that is that he will. given the nature of who he is. that he has the backbone. >> barry berke, we saw, liz cheney at the outside of the hearing said that this hearing was going to focus

tony ornado and bobby engel would testify that the altercation that cassidy hutchison describes, that never happened. but neither of those men ever did give that testimony. a few days after hutchison's testimony, the head of the secret service just up and quit. a few weeks later, tony ornado quit the secret service as well. and then there is the unsettling question that still hang officials january 6th when it comes to the secret service and mike pence. the vice president famously told the head of the detail that day, i'm not getting into that car. the secret service tried to get him into a vehicle. some members of the january 6 committee suggested that was because pence had reason to worry. worry that secret service was trying to ferry him way from the capitol and not just for his safety. committee member called pence's refusal i'm not getting in that car, he said that is six of the most chilling words in american history. and now today, we have this. today, a former member of that group testified that leader claimed to have a contact in the secret service. and he said that months be

the testimony from cassidy hutchison that donald trump was told at his rally on the oval that there were people who were armed and were not able to get through the magnetometers outside the event. he said they're not here to hurt me. taking the f'ing mags away. let may people in. what is the importance of that testimony? >> if it were true, it's significant. i just don't -- i don't believe it. i don't have any reason to know whether it's true or not. that is the problem with the nature of these hearings. there is no opportunity for cross-examination. there's no ranking minority member to test these things. and that's the problem. obviously that would be a significant statement to say and be a shocking statement for a president of the unite to make. >> why? >> because it's encouraging and not encouraging but putting one's opinion on the idea of bringing guns into the capitol and certainly they have no place being there. that's why those devices are there to prevent that kind of thing. but tying that to president trump, you know, i think a couple steps away from that. >> sure. and again th

that includes damning testimony from cassidy hutchison that he didn't care they had weapons and becamehen he was told he couldn't go to the capitol. the secret service has turned over more than 1 million pieces of electronic communication sent before or on january 6th. the hearing will also shed light on the alleged ties between those in trump's orbit and the extremist groups in the mob that day. today, we learned more about their intentions in the trial of the oath keepers including the former leader, stewart rhodes. today, one member testified to seeing a massive stockpile of firearms stajed in a virginia hotel room the night before the insurrection. he testified i had not seen that many weapons in one location since i was in the military. the committee will remind the public that trump was the central force. a point enforced by michael fanone. >> donald trump sat for 187 minutes and didn't do [ bleep ] while hundreds of police officers were fighting for their lives on the capitol steps and we now know that he was watching intently throughout that entire period. the select committee

i think, and i don't think they will cop to this, they didn't bet on cassidy hutchison for any other reason then they found her extremely credible.. they found specific things in their notes, they were able to verify, and i'm told, cross check against other notes. they found her testimony about the secret service, incredibly compelling, they went out, and they spent a lot of time in these months, and in this last public hearing today, corroborating it. >> i think the idea being secret service involved in trying to unveil the investigation, and lying to the investigation. not to cover up that they did something wrong, but trying to cover up that trump grabbed the wheel of the limo, or that trump grabbed a secret service agent by the neck. then, lying about that, not just in a cya move, but then to derail the investigation into things like that. it is deeply unnerving. >> the deleted texts, is just the most stunning, evidence of manipulation, in history in these investigations. the mass deletion of texts. by individuals, with their devices, and is, deliberately, just a stunning gap in

none were dramatically added except the testimony of cassidy hutchison. this reportedly caught a lot of attention and was compelling even to the justice department. but let me show you some of her dramatic testimony. >> so is it your understanding that mr. ornato told the president about weapons at the rally on the morning of january 6th? >> that's what he relayed to me. >> his response was we can march from the capitol from the ellipse. >> something to the effect of take the f-ing mags away. they're not here to hurt me. let them in. let my people in. they can march the capitol after the rally's over. >> he said something to the effect of i'm the f-ing president. take me up to the capitol now. to which bobby responded, sir, we have to go back to the west wing. the president reached up toward the front of the vehicle to grab at the steering wheel. mr. engel grabbed his arm, said sir, you need to take your hand off the steering wheel. we're going back to the west wing. we're not going to the capitol. mr. trump then used his free hand to lunch towards bobby

both reporters that tony ornato, and bobby engle would testify that the altercation, the one cassidy hutchison described, that never happened. that neither of those men ever did give that testimony. >> a few days after hutchinson's testimony, the head of the secret service up and quit. a few weeks later, tony ornato quit the secret service as well. and then there is the unsettling question the still hangs over january six when it comes to the secret service, and vice president mike pence. the vice president told ahead of his detail that day, i'm not getting in that car when the secret service try to get him into a vehicle. some members of the january 6th -- that's because pence had reason to worry, worry that the secret service was trying to ferry him away from the capitol, and not just for his safety. jamie raskin called pence's refusal, he called that six of the most chilling words in american history. and now, today, we have this. an ongoing seditious conspiracy trial, the far-right paramilitary group, the oath keepers, for their roles in the attack on the capitol today, a former member of

of the most powerful pieces of testimony we've seen from the january 6th committee so far was cassidy hutchison trump wanted to be there. how he wanted to be there on the ground. i really think what we're going to see tomorrow is secret service texts, secret service documents that add some depth to that corroborator testimony which of course some people said was insinuations that was not accurate, but -- >> you say be there, let's go exactly into that in english. be there means go to the place where the armed fans are. join the criminal armed rebellion. and then wait outside? or march with them through the officers to get into the capitol where he was demanding the obstruction and hindering to use the legal terminology, of the counting of the votes. does there mean marching in with the criminals? >> yeah. i think absolutely. and i would go beyond that because there are people as you know, ari, that wanted to harm the vice president of the united states. wanted to kill members of congress. i mean, essentially, you would have the then sitting president of the united states wanting to be there on

militia groups are common in the white house it was so cassidy hutchison. >> i recall sharing the word oath keeper, and the word proud boys closer to the planning of the january 6th rally, where mr. giuliani would be around. >> we also know, the oath keepers founder, albert stewart rhodes and the third who, is now on trial, attempted to contact president trump directly on january 6th. they will be hoping that trump itself would invoke the insurrection act to, pre-civil war law, that they saw, as a kind of pretext to deputize the militia to act on his behalf. >> we have men already stationed outside of d.c. as a nuclear option, in case they attempt to remove the president, illegally. so, i have good men on the ground already last week, and we are sorting out, and staging, and we will be there. we will be inside d.c., and on the other side of d.c., armed, and prepared to go in, if the president calls for it. >> as of now, we have no evidence to militia groups, itself. this subpoena seems to indicate, the january six committee believes such evidence would exist out there. they say that do

cassidy hutchison for all of her courage, one of the most powerful staples she made was the one that heard the president say to mark meadows, you got to figure this thing out, we can't let people know we lost this. and there are so many unanswered questions. a lot of them related to the secret service and all of those communications that they're still sorting through. what will they be able to do with time as a real obstacle here over the course of the next few months? >> look, as they're trying to tie up these loose threads, they are fully aware they're up against the clock, not just because the committee ends at the end of the year, but the subpoena expires at the end of the year, and any work the committee would get to do at the end of the year, is wholly dependent on what happens in election day in november. you and i have talked about this so many times. the fact that if democrats keep control of the house chamber, then sure, this committee could be renewed and their work could continue, but if republicans win, in november, and take control of this chamber, then this committee i

cassidy hutchison comes to mind. as perhaps the most compelling witness of all.o hugo's point, there's still some giant, unsolved mysteries of january six that i hope the committee will get to this thursday. but their witness presentations are pardon parcel if not the most critical element to why the hearings have been successful so far. alicia? >> hugo, vice chair liz cheney says the committee is still considering criminal referrals. take a listen. >> that process is one that we are discussing now. i don't want to go too far down the path in terms of specifics about it, but it's something i can tell you, all the members of ten committee take seriously. >> hugo, what does your party tell you about the way the committee is leaning? >> but it's been a lot of discussions about this inside the committee. through the early stages on the investigation, even threw up until recent weeks. i think there is a general consensus now that they do want to make some sort of statement that says we believe, we had a january six committee, believe there been crimes committed. we wa

. >> all of that is so damning, particular that first soundbite we played from cassidy hutchison. people to know that we lost. this is embarrassing. figure it out. like, what? why is he still publicly promoting the big lie? why are we public? >> that's the danger of all of it. trump himself knows he lost the election. that's not what they are selling out there. we have election denier still running on a platform that the election was stolen. the former president himself has admitted that he lost. he starts doing all these crazy actions like potentially withdrawn from somalia, afghanistan in a hurry because he knows his time is limited in office. i think it's about control and power. what they have noticed is that it's working for him. they're riling up the base. let's be honest, fox news was willing to perpetuate the lies. they were willing to radicalize americans based on it. it has been so dangerous, what is happening here, for the democracy. i know you and i talk about this. it's how much this has really undermines voter confidence in our electoral system. >> another former tru

we have the cassidy hutchison. the with conversation with mark meadows saying, trump know he lost. was, not only in telling folks to march to the capitol, but wanting to go with them to keep them empowered, and in refusing to stop the violence. he sat in the dining room and watched unfold as we also looked at the footage of what was happening in the capitol, never before seen. that is plenty for an investigation. yes, they had enough to refer it today. they obviously were thinking more about how they keep the pressure and focus on merrick garland. that's the way i read it. >> i understand the nuance you draw there. with regard to what he knew, we're discussed before, if you go into a bank and say, i'm genuinely convinced that's my money and you physically take it, it's not a defense to bank robbery. so how bananas donald trump's true state of mind is is actually not a defense. even if some people believe, i think it was superbananas, doesn't mean you get away with it. having said that, they did take precious time today to show it was even stronger than that. he knew and confided in

cipollone's testimony is corroborated by multiple other white house staff members including cassidy hutchisone heard from mark meadows. >> he said something to the effect of, you heard him, pat, he didn't want to do anything more, he doesn't think they are doing anything wrong. >> the former white house employee with national security duties similarly recalled an exchange between mr. cipollone and eric hirschman about president trump's inaction against the mob assault under way at the capitol. >> mr. herschman said something to mr. cipollone, he seemed to relay, that you know, the president didn't want anything done. throughout this period, some of the president's most important political allies, family members and senior staff all begged him to tell his supporters to disperse and go home. they included sean hannity, laura ingraham and other allies of fox news, his son donald trump jr., the house minority leader kevin mccarthy, others in congress, and officials in the cabinet and executive branch, all of them made appeals to donald trump, which he rejected and he ignored. the select committee

remember we had cassidy hutchison tell the story about donald trump was quite insistent to go to theh. it seems like we've seen sort of shades about a plan, of a second rally, near the capitol, maybe on the steps of the supreme court, maybe they can shed some light on what was going on there. because that could tie donald trump to the activities at the capitol. so those are some things i will be looking for. >> certainly i will be looking as well. i know the secret service has asked for the agent's personal phones as well. they've been seized. we'll find out if any of that information shows up tomorrow during the hearing which apparently might not be the last, as ali vitali just reported per bennie thompson. barbara, thank you very much. >>> and tomorrow at noon eastern, don't forget to join us here on msnbc for special coverage of the next, maybe final january 6th hearing. we'll see. led by me and my colleagues, andrea mitchell, and hallie jackson. >>> after weeks of silence, brett favre is explaining himself. what he is claiming he knew about the $77 million welfare fraud case he i

cassidy hutchison was present for that conversation and described it this way. >> this was when the supreme court rejected that case. mr. meadows and i were in there at the christmas reception. the president was walking out of the oval office. the president was fired up. about the supreme court decision. i stepped back two or three feet. he was raging about the decision and how it was wrong and why didn't you make more calls? his typical anger outburst. he said something to the effect of i don't want people to know we lost, mark. this is embarrassing. this is embarrassing. i don't want people to know we lost. >> our country is a country of laws where every person, including the president must follow the law and respect the judgment of the courts. president trump's closest advisers hold that view both then and now. >> do you believe the president should advise by the ruling of the court? >> yes. we should comply with the law at all time to the best of our ability. >> once the court ruled and the electoral college had met, the election is over in your view? >> yes. i believe i said when the v

cassidy hutchison testifying under oath that days before the assault of the capitol, donald trump ordered meadows to call roger stone and mike flynn, two men with connections to the proud boys and oath keepers. potential line of communication from the trump white house to far right extremist groups that would be responsible for much of the brutal violence that day. this that is of profound importance and in all we learned this week in the conspiracy trial, the founders of the oath keepers to gather evidence and testimony combined to illustrate just how far that group is willing to go. they have prepared for violence it was in order to stop the peaceful transfer of power on january 6th on behalf of donald trump. well, one witness said in the aftermath of the election, "it sounded like we were going to war against the united states government." group chats read allowed in court suggested members envisioned january 6th like "1776 all over again." stewart rhodes himself insisted at the time that trump should, quote, use the insurrection act, using phrases like bloody civil war and revolution.