owe's for he than my other athleefments as you know, because of political, his political stands, cassius clay, who later became muhammad ali, actually was stripped of his heavyweight title, and so his struggle went on into the 197 owe's. so it can be argued that the most prominent black athlete is the one who lost the most in the 196 he's, could easily be called muhammad ali. and so even today, the fruit that we see happening in the life, from the life of muhammad ali, and in the life of colin kaepernick and in the life of eric reid and in the life of lebron james, it's born from the stand, the courage from muhammad ali. >> and were there some other icon that is we may be less familiar with that you can talk about? >> doug johnson from the 1920's, a prominent boxer, who refused to allow himself to be paid in chicken feed. he was a world champion boxer in the 1920's. he was the first to demand to e paid over $1,000 for boxing. and jesse owens. jesse owens, in some people's minds, there are some in the black culture that consider him a "sellout." but there has to be trailblazers. jellsee owens,

>> seth: yeah. >> cassius clay?>> it was in a little book that i had. i mean, you know >> seth: all right, a little book i take it back you were -- you considered running for the democratic nomination for a while >> i did >> seth: we taped before the debates tonight, but there are ten people on stage. do you ever think to yourself, gosh, i should be one of the people up there? >> oh, only every day. >> seth: yeah, yeah, every day >> yeah, yeah. no, i think that we have a great pool of candidates and i think any one of them would be better than the present occupant of the white house. >> seth: sure. >> and, uh - [ cheers and applause >> seth: no argument here. >> yeah. but i also think, you know - i also think every now and again there were some unique things that i might have brought to the contest. and so i have, you know, second doubts every once in a while on the other hand, when i -- i did the poll that was most important, that was the poll of my family, i was in the distinct minority as to whether or not i shou

of all of my -- i had jackie robinson's autograph. >> mine said to ricky from cassius clay and it wasom the candy store and my mom disposed of it. >> i grew upon in new york at the same time you did. malcolm x was killed in 1965. it was very ominous event, and it was part of a very turbulent time. what are your recollections of that era and how that era shaped you growing up in new york? >> it was an interesting time. i grew up -- and i was born in 1951 and i grew up in the placid '50s and then boy, the '60s just take off with the assassination of president kennedy in november 1963, malcolm, '65 and obviously what happened in '68 and i go to college in 1969 and it was a turbulent time. >> in many ways you're a straight-laced guy and then the part of you that took over the rotc building and renamed it briefly for malcolm x. >> it still exists in columbia and still called the malcolm x lounge. >> still there? >> my mother was shocked, mad, upset that i was part of that takeover. i didn't send you to school for that, but i saw, you know, i was part of a generation that was against what i