john donvan: catherine crump. catherine crump: yeah, i think your point is a good one. encryption, while it may be the best tool we have available often isn't perfect. the apple case illustrated that. they were able to get in using a vulnerability that they purchased. there will continue to be vulnerabilities. and particularly in high-profile, high-value investigations, they may continue to be used. john donvan: another question? right down front, sir. a mic's going to come for you. just one second. male speaker: now, you realize you just called on the former chief justice of the state of california. so whatever he says i'm going to agree with it. [laughter] male speaker: i'm asking -- john donvan: please tell us your name. male speaker: -- as a layperson. ronald george. john donvan: thank you. male speaker: i just wonder whether, in weighing privacy interests against security interests if congress, in considering a law requiring that such help be provided, were to be presented with credible evidence that there were plans to import a nuclear device into the united state

john donvan: catherine crump. catherine crump: yeah, i think your point is a good one. encryption, while it may be the best tool we have available often isn't perfect. the apple case illustrated that. they were able to get in using a vulnerability that they purchased. there will continue to be vulnerabilities. and particularly in high-profile, high-value investigations, they may continue to be used. john donvan: another question? right down front, sir. a mic's going to come for you. just one second. male speaker: now, you realize you just called on the former chief justice of the state of california. so whatever he says i'm going to agree with it. [laughter] male speaker: i'm asking -- john donvan: please tell us your name. male speaker: -- as a layperson. ronald george. john donvan: thank you. male speaker: i just wonder whether, in weighing privacy interests against security interests if congress, in considering a law requiring that such help be provided, were to be presented with credible evidence that there were plans to import a nuclear device into the united state