, and maybe only way -- oftentimes, people become too much the store themselves, it sort of like cathleenblack did in new york. you cannot turn the page until that person needs, and it seems unfair because he has actually done a good job running the firm. tavis: telling bad jokes does not help. >> as i say in the book, that was taken of context. fair game. but they got the last laugh, because it was a u.k. newspaper. he was making it off the cuff a joke. he has a good sense of humor, but it was too good a line for them to pass up, and it blew up into a headline. tavis: you mention a few names. we have heard it so far, hank paulson. the name robert rubin, those who worked at the top of the food chain at goldman sachs. i said earlier that many of us prefer to read as a government -- many of us prefer to read as government -- refer to it as government sachs. >> tavis, this has been going on for 100 years. it is not unusual with washington and wall street. people have been going back and forth. once you have been a government official, the next thing to do is go and make a lot of money on wal