i grew up in new orleans, very healthily catholic.as pentecostal, but all my friends were catholic. but i always had a lot of questions, still do. so apparently our audience does, too. >> i have some questions as the program goes about the charismatic renewal movement within the catholic church. we have a lot of calls. martha is calling from chicago with our first question. yes, what is your question? >> my question is doesn't praying to saints take jesus place as our intercresser and our high priest in heaven? and how can saints intercress prayers when they're awaiting salvation themselves. >> it was a doctrine that was defined called the communion of saints. and what basically that says is that when a person receives jesus christ and the holy spirit lives inside them, they are alive to christ, as jesus said whoever believes in me, even though he died, yet shall he live. we believe the saints that have crossed the line into the kingdom of heaven are one with us, in some spiritual bond. therefore as i can turn to you as the saints on

listen up, catholic church. do not mess with the liturgy.t is the infallible word of god which was translated from the latin which was translated from the greek which was translated from the aramaic which, of course, was translated from the original english. (laughter) besides, do you know how long it took me to memorize all these prayers? it was harder than memorizing "we didn't start the fire." (laughter) "our father who art in heaven hallowed be thy name, they kingdom come, thy will be done, einstein, james dean, brooklyn's got a winning team, elvis presley disney land... amen! and get this out. get a load of the so-called improvements. the new nicene creed. the 1700-year-old profession of what all catholics must believe has been tweaked. it now describes jesus not as the understandable one in being with the father but as consubstantial with the father. really? consubstantial? what the hell does that mean? (laughter) we're trying to get into heaven here, not take the s.a.t.s. (laughter) and for the record... (cheers and applause) and for

roman catholic mass. and taking us through the words and much about it is our guest who is the director of worship for the archdiocese for san francisco. i wish we had more time. >> no, you don't because i could talk about this for hours and i have. >> i get the senior rate at parking now. we're talking about the text, the new missile, 2,000 pages of words. you mean there have to be tens of thousands of old missiles. what happened to the old missiles? >> we consider them to being sacramento and blessed and -- -- some of our churches are going to burn the old ones and use them for ash wednesday. >> some are so thick it may take to ash wednesday to burn it. >> we're talking about that so we're talking with catholic cemeteries to bury them and perm cleaning out theirs could sets. i'm getting old missiles from 1960. we'll make sure they're properly disposed of. >> will there be a special right then when their put down? >> there's a special right when their blessed. >> we're talking about it and you said the n

bosnian croats, mostly catholic. and bosnian muslims.reas, they live side by side but not together. tensions often run deep in just under the surface. for example in the education of children. the receipt completely every education's from the content of what they learned to how they learn it. most of the time, the children are segregated in the same building with little personal contact. this is just one example of how catholics and muslims have isolated from each other in parallel societies. as we discover in our next return, ancient enmities are being reinforced in today's classrooms. >> amina is 9 years old. she is in third grade at an elementary school in central bosnia. the majority of people here are the bosnian muslims and bosnian croats, or catholics. the two groups faced off against each other during the war. she shows us her school. she has to use the left entrance, because it is the only one for the bosnian muslims. the school is divided. the muslim and catholic children are taught early on to keep their distance. the other en

unfortunately, the catholic church has gone through this as well. very kind of sexual -- of criminal allegations and the institutional neglect. what lessons do you think the church learned that other institutions have to also learn painfully? >> i think, i'd say three. number one we've learned that we have to make sure that we are absolutely open and putting everything on the table. and that when there is a problem, we handle it, we handle it according to law, we handle it according to the canon law. it's all in there. it's all in there. if we just did what our cannon law tells us to do, we wouldn't have these problems. but sometimes we allow, and i think one thing is important to say. when these problems first surfaced, the only area that we had to find the answer was psychology, was these therapeutic agencies. they're the ones we will for how can we help this person not to do this again? how can we help this person not to be involved in these things? how can we cure them? and the therapeutic agency said, oh, we can do it for you. they were wrong.

♪ >> coming up, roman catholics are adjusting to a new english translation of the mass.nd not everyone is welcoming in changes. plus, on going controversy in the ancient debate over whether there's a hewh, eno gets in and what happens to those who don't. >> major funding for religion and ethics news weekly is provided by the lily endowment, a private family foundation dedicated to its founders and christian religion, community development and education. additional funding provided by mutual of america, designing customized, individual and group retirement products. that's why we're your retirement company. the estate of william j. carter, the jane hensen foundation and the corporation for public broadcasting. >> welcome. i'm kim lawson sitting in. thank you for joining us. 93-year-old e vvangelist billy graham was hospitaled on wednesday with pneumonia. a spokesman says he was alert and upbeat. in may, he recovered from a case of pneumonia. thursday was world aids day and religious leaders were among those recommitting their efforts to combat the deadly disease. at an ev

and catholic. between the past and the present. a battle centuries old that rages yet today. in phoenix, arizona.... >> and the son of man.... >> reporter:... it's a battle between bishop thomas olmstead and the city's hospital st. joseph's whose staff includes a respected nun. it began in november 2009 when a pregnant 27-year-old mother of four in her 11th week was admitted with severe pulmonary hyper tension. her doctors say it was dramatically worsening because of the pregnancy. dr. charles alfono is st. joseph's chief medical officer. >> the hormonal changes of pregnancy, the changes in blood flow in this patient created a situation where her heart began to fail, and that failure, despite the efforts of the physicians progressed. she was very near death. >> reporter: modern medicine presented two equally grim options: terminate the pregnancy and save the mother or lose both mother and child. >> as a result we made the difficult decision but the decision that we had to make to terminate the preg

backing up and little bit, the catholic academy bought this property in 2005 from the roman catholic diocese of san francisco. it is religiously affiliated with the archdiocese. the principal benefactor for the academy was very involved in the acquisition of the property. unfortunately, they have not been able to support that entity. one of the ways to support the endowment was to sell the personal property and side of the church. pews, altars, tabernacle, and religious artifacts went to other religious three affiliated catholic institutions across the country. there is a network for that sort of thing, i guess. when the notice of violation was posted, that personal property had all been taken from the church. much of it had been shifted out and was on a schoolyard on a separate lot. 22a. some of it was being crated up. people saw through the chain- link fence and saw that the property was being boarded up. it phone call was made. but at that time, no more work was being done. i will not rehash the legal arguments in a letter, but one is that you do not need a permit for that type of

many happening at catholic schools and sem narrows. and thost discover what exactly went on in those institutions and what kind of justice should be offered to the institutions. >> at this stage, how much recognition has been made of the catholic church of these sorts of abuses. >> well, they agreed to the fact that it was necessary for victims and we had a kind of a scale depending on how serious the abuse was so from conversations to rising to a maximum of $130,000 depending on the nature of the abuse. and it's a really significant thing here, because our percentage of the world commitment is being claimed as being come pliss -- come accomplished. >> and set towards resolving the worst scenario disaster since chernobyl, it's actioned the three actors went to the meltdown has now reached what it's called cold shut down and the government would do whatever it needs to core spend the poveya. discover has relieved why it's third in the -- >> the bottom reactor has been brought below the required point far cold shutdown. and now it's said

to everyone and so it does not qualify. >> john: how many students are not catholic?are many students that are catholic beau that's not the issue they should be allowed it of-- >> they take jews, muslims? >> they take everyone, who believe in any kind of religion or absolutely nothing. this is' no limit. the college places no limit who can attend u and we asked the government health and human services to come and they did not. >> they received 100,000 complaints, 100,000 complaints. that's, that's millions of americans. >> john: now, the beckett fund, your organization defends pharmacists who don't want to sell the morning after pills. >> yes, we have a case in washington state defending margaret and thelma. >> john: if there are some products, you're a business, you don't want to sell. >> there are many wavers, you can have not to stock various prescriptions, this one you have to stock and defend it. >> john: thank you. coming up, free stuff from the government, like scooters like the one this woman's driving here. of course, nothing is really free. we all pay millio

to everyone and so it does not qualify. >> john: how many students are not catholic? >> there are many students that are catholic beau that's not the issue they should be allowed it of-- >> they take jews, muslims? >> they take everyone, who believe in any kind of religion or absolutely nothing. this is' no limit. the college places no limit who can attend u and we asked the government health and human services to come and they did not. >> they received 100,000 complaints, 100,000 complaints. that's, that's millions of americans. >> john: now, the beckett fund, your organization defends pharmacists who don't want to sell the morning after pills. >> yes, we have a case in washington state defending margaret and thelma. >> john: if there are some products, you're a business, you don't want to sell. >> there are many wavers, you can have not to stock various prescriptions, this one you have to stock and defend it. >> john: thank you. coming up, free stuff from the government, like scooters like the one this woman's driving here. of course, nothing is really free. we all

tens of thousands of children in holland suffered sexual abuse while in catholic institutions. the inquiry found that church officials failed to adequately deal with the abuse or help the victims. the inquiry found more than 1000 cases. >> the claims quickly escalated to reveal a network of abuse right across the country. during the course of this investigation, they found one in five children were abused while in the care of catholic institutions. not only that catholic officials knew of the abuse was happening but did nothing to help the victims or stop the people of using them. the commission estimates between 10,000-20,000 children were abused between 1945 and 2010. they identified 800 priests, brothers, lay people working for the church. of those, 105 are still alive but it is not known if they still have church positions. the catholic church took some responsibility for what happened. >> i feel deeply touched and affected by what is in the report. it is terrible. >> the group represents the victims have called for justice for all those affected. >> what is in really impor

a lot of the same things that are said about muslims were said about catholics, that catholics owed allegianceo a foreign power, that they weren't fully democratic. i take some of these numbers in a more positive way that you see quite a bit of movement toward toleration and embrace, but still some holding back i think it'll te a long te. youngermerins a much more open than older americans. >> and so much of many americans views on muslims and islam have been tied to the war on terror. and so that's an additional complication. that also then brings in foreign policy and lots of politics as well. so that's been a complicating factor that many american muslims are frustrated about. that they're broad-brushed with a whole bunch of people around the world that they have nothing to do with. >> the last u.s. troops from iraq have been coming back. what do you make, what do you all make of the welcome that they've received and people's feelings generally about the end of the iraq war? >> i've been surprised at the fact that prior to our entry into the iraq war in the religious community this was a hu

moly -- and an irish catholic. and i'm wondering what was the argument not wanting catholic immigrants? and what were the arguments of the supporters? there must have been a tremendous number of people who saw things his way. >> i'm not sure what the terrorism has to do with it. because of course, there was no the 1840's or 50s. the argument is simply this, that people like millard fillmore believe that america was a nation where people of english, scottish and welsh ancestry were protestants. and catholics were bad because they followed the antichrist in rome because the faludi religion that suppressed democracy and suppressed freedom. it's fascinating of course to think about the way that the structured these arguments. the police say to the to -- they always say catholicism -- we are going to press catholics because we are good democrats. to think it through a little harder. fillmore appeals to votes people in america who when faced with a crisis would like to blame what sociologists call the other. that is peop

now against the painful process of rebuilding the reputation of the catholic church in the netherlands and beyond. >> the end of muammar gaddafi's rain in libya was supposed to usher in a time of reconciliation. many of his fighters are in jail and the new government is keen to promote national army. that message is not getting through where some areas that used to support the kernels are coming under attack from the militias. >> after the guns fell silent, so did the entire town. sign posts have been raised by militiamen from misrata would like to see this place erased from the map. once home to 30,000 people, now home to no one at all. houses have been ransacked and torch. this was used as a base for muammar gaddafi's forces. when they were defeated, everyone here had to flee. it is extremely erie being in a place for not a soul remains. misrata is about 50 kilometers from here and every day some of their militiamen come here ensuring that no man, woman, child care return. -- dare return. among the prisoners, a significant number of the villagers. they say they have been well treated

you went to crayton, which is a catholic school. why did you go with the catholic education? >> my grandparents were both methodist and they were living in east st. louis many years ago and they wanted the best education they could possibly get for their children and it was in the catholic school system. so they converted. and so all of their kids, all four of them, my mother included, went to catholic schools after that. so that was kind of basically what my mother felt was the best path system of she made sure we were enrolled in catholic school and i ended up going and finishing high school where she went to high school. i have an uncle who is a jesuit. it was natural for me to attend a jesuit college. not natural, but i felt more comfortable. at the time, it was a nice, comfortable environment, about seven hours from st. louis, so it was easy to get to. >> when you think back, about the fact that you grew up being shy, where did you begin to get out of that? >> when i was a cadet in rotc, because you're put into leadership roles pretty quickly even in the reserve officer

we're not the same, jews and catholics. are not the same, and need to preserve their own identities, but they can do that through peaceable co-existence. woman: anyone like to offer something like that? for jewish people to understand what makes the christian people uncomfortable? is there anything? that i am somehow responsible for all of the hurt and anguish of the jewish people in the past. and i have to say it prevents me then from hugging this man next to me and feeling good about him. right, in answer to that, that's the point. if there were more people like her who would be uncomfortable because i am here, then maybe we might have an answer to where we're going. woman: if we had more christian people who felt the way she does, absolutely. oh, good, and he gets a hug after all. why is it difficult or impossible for a jewish and christian couple to marry in the jewish faith? how could you possibly ask a person to suddenly turn off their heart and turn off their emotions and turn off possibly 20 years of an upbringing t

catholic church are not observing church teaching on issues like consequent septiotr. there's a lot of cafeteria thinking. >> i think picking and choosing a good way to put it. i think there is a satisfy tiara mentality. that can apply to even religious beliefs. you think that religion is in the climb in the united states. >> no, i don't. i've vested a intt i teach at religion at boston college. it's not a commercial anything. religion is powerful. there's people i don't think it's true that we're in the middle of another great awa awakening. >> let me grijalva you some statistics. look at marriage. in 19 snrirtss. the number of unwed couples shot up 1 50%. >> marriage ins decline. i think that's true. i think that's true. maybe paul and i agree on there is a battle going on here between these two ways of thinking about the world. one more can you have n nent. >> the church authorities cannot keep marriage which is a centerpiece as ovenant. >> the church authorities cannot keep marriage which is a centerpiece as we that this force is irresistible sooner or later we're

catholics have shifted what they are teaching about mary. protestants are now taking another look. say she's going to be a point of unity between protestants and catholics but at least not necessarily a huge bone of contention as in the past. >> with the rise of women's issues in protestantism, especially in more and more women becoming ministers in various protestant denominations, mary has become more on the front-burner for protestants as well. i mean, why are we busy running around just talking about peter and john? i mean, we should also talk about how mary is presented as a role model in the new testament. ♪ >> while the virgin was being turned into a goddess, the magdalene was being turned into a sinner. now the other mary is getting a second look thanks to some stunning discoveries in the sands of egypt. >> we found buried fragments of huge arguments and what we found are just glimmers and hints of what must have been explosive controversies in the first century. what we discovered is that the question about women, and their leadership and their participation was not someth

what is not deniable is that the play has bravely offended many roman catholics. phrases like -- the aids messiah -- shocking many church trip -- churchgoers. apart from the police, there is a small group of young traditionalists. critics say that these people have links to the far right and are a threat to free speech. >> these are lies of civilization. they do not give good publicity for the conflict church -- catholic church. >> for these traditionalists, this and other glass from his works are symptoms of an increasingly anti-christian culture, a product that they quite literally believe is of the devil. >> this is "gmt." the headlines -- the british prime minister, david cameron, will shortly tell the u.k. parliament why he refused to sign the euro zone rescue treaty. local elections are being held in syria today against the backdrop of continuing violence of opposition forces and security supporters. time for business news. aaron is here with us. staying out in britain, financial service regulators have come out with a report on the big bank and a sublet --

is the catholic church at the moment in decline or on the rise?think we have turned a bend and right now, we're seeing so much new manager. the spirit at work in the church. we're seeing that especially among our young adults. there's a whole new re-evaluation, reappreciation of the church, of her message and i think that's what the new evangilization is all about. encouraging all of us to look around and to share the great gift of faith with people who should be with us who maybe once thought of themselves as part of our family but have simply drifted away. >> you were named a cardinal of the catholic church, an enormous honor for you and for this whole archdiocese last year. there have been reports recently that the pope who is 84 years old is in decline, showing signs of decline, that he's too tired, for instance, to meet with visiting bishops. first of all, how is the holy father's health and secondly, you would think it's possible as he raised in a recent interview that if his health were declined further, he might voluntarily step down which

you conducted newt gingrich's baptism when he convert it for the catholic church. character, and it is his personal search for redemption. and how do you suggest the voters -- >> it is the wouldn't be free to talk about his pastoral experience. it is we all learn a lesson when we get into the world of an election. we want to respect everyone's religious. background and what is the best leader for our country. it should be a litmus test. what is their religious experience. i think what we want to do. does that share the and it is advances the common good of the country. it makes any personal judgments on the fast life. if someone sinned in the past. >> we are a church of forgiveness. and forgive us the trespass as we forgive those who trespass against us. we ask for everything else and expect that god is going to give it to us. and jesus said, be forbegin as you forgive. we all ask for forgiveness. and it is one of the reasons why the celebration of christmas. and get the confession. knon none of us are perfect. and we come to christmas day. and a contrite heart. we

my mother scraped together money to send us to catholics school. she patched our pants, because we cannot afford news one, and she made it so that we could have magazines at home, like " time," and "ebony" and "jet." >> he made mention of those. >> she wanted to mention the we saw african americans doing other things, and as magazines provide information on business leaders, entertainment, sports, so we knew that people were doing things in our community that they were not necessarily doing in east st. louis, so we would have examples and role models. >> what did she do to scrape together the tuition money? i note that right about now is 87 under dollars. what about that? >> it was a couple hundred dollars. >> how did she find the money? >> i honestly do not know. my mother and my grandmother were great savers. they researched ways to live as frugally as we possibly could, but i never felt deprived. my mother would find money to take us to cultural events. i got to hear an african- american pianist with the st. louis symphony. we got tickets to go

he is catholic. he represents a kind of immigrant, urban america that has come of age in the last 30 years. on the other side, we have as a republican candidate herbert hoover who in many ways can hardly be more different than al smith. he is from the midwest. he is from iowa. he is very straitlaced. he is not urban. he is pious. he wears very starchy colors. these two men really encapsule some of the most important political and cultural clashes of that moment. clashes over prohibition. to some degree, clashes over the economy. in many ways, this turns out to be a cultural selection that hinges on which of these two americas is the america that will be voted into office. >> it was said that the three p's influenced this election -- prohibition, prosperity, and prejudice. >> i think they really do capture it. >> we have al smith who is one of the nation's biggest critics of prohibition. it has been in effect for almost a decade. it has been a real problem for most of that time, and throughout al smit

. >> so what does it mean to be a catholic and jesuit university? >> to be a catholic and jesuit university means to be committed to academic excellence, to be committed to exploring one's faith across different faith traditions - catholic, protestant, jewish, muslim, orthodox christian, or people who may be struggling to find their faith. >> while most of the 7,500 undergrads here come from catholic or other christian backgrounds, all faiths are welcome. >> actually, right in there, if you go into healy hall, there's the jewish rabbi, the muslim imam, and the head priest, all in the same building -- offices right next to each other. >> georgetown is actually one of the first universities in the united states to have a muslim chaplain -- a full-time muslim chaplain. >> and the school motto is "utraque unum," both into one. can you explain that? >> yes. "utraque unum." it's a latin phrase. "from the many into one," or "from the one into the many." so, for instance, we strive to be one community here at georgetown, but yet we're a very diverse communi

moly -- and an irish catholic. and i'm wondering what was the argument not wanting catholic immigrants? and what were the arguments of the supporters? there must have been a tremendous number of people who saw things his way. >> i'm not sure what the terrorism has to do with it. because of course, there was no the 1840's or 50s. the argument is simply this, that people like millard fillmore believe that america was a nation where people of english, scottish and welsh ancestry were protestants. and catholics were bad because they followed the antichrist in rome because the faludi religion that suppressed democracy and suppressed freedom. it's fascinating of course to think about the way that the structured these arguments. the police say to the to -- they always say catholicism -- we are going to press catholics because we are good democrats. to think it through a little harder. fillmore appeals to votes people in america who when faced with a crisis would like to blame what sociologists call the other. that is peop

he was all heart. >> how catholic was he? >> he was very catholic growing up. i would say after he leaves the c.i.a., things take another turn. but as you can see from that clip, i say some sort of provocative thing bus i say he didn't have any friends. he was obviously friendly with the people in the agency but it was a club. and there's not a lot of room for the outsider, the insurance salesman to sort of be part of this click. they like to talk to each other. they're all cleared. i mean, there's 150 to 20 o 0,000 people in washington right now who have a top secret security clearance. i'm sure they mingle at the bridge club or the soccer game with other people. but when push comes to shove, they're in a team and they're out to win. and i think it's quite compartmentalized and that's what my father's life was like. >> why would we not suspect that you're a member of the c.i.a.? >> well, i don't think so. why would i be out making movies? >> i mean, it could a be all part of the disinformation or information of the c.i.a. >> that would be wild. that's like whe

moly -- and an irish catholic. and i'm wondering what was the argument not wanting catholic immigrants? and what were the arguments of the supporters? there must have been a tremendous number of people who saw things his way. >> i'm not sure what the terrorism has to do with it. because of course, there was no the 1840's or 50s. the argument is simply this, that people like millard fillmore believe that america was a nation where people of english, scottish and welsh ancestry were protestants. and catholics were bad because they followed the antichrist in rome because the faludi religion that suppressed democracy and suppressed freedom. it's fascinating of course to think about the way that the structured these arguments. the police say to the to -- they always say catholicism -- we are going to press catholics because we are good democrats. to think it through a little harder. fillmore appeals to votes people in america who when faced with a crisis would like to blame what sociologists call the other. that is peop

host: how catholic was he? guest: he was very catholic. growing up. i would say after he leaves the c.i.a. things too long another turn. but as you can see from that clip, i say some provocative things about him but at the same time to me what were honest things. when i say he didn't have any friends he was obviously friendly with the people in the agency. but it was a club. and there is not a lot of room for the outsider, the insurance salesman to be part of this clique. they like to talk it each other. they are all cleared. they are 150,000 to 200,000 people in the washington area who have a top-secret security clearance. i'm sure they mingle at the bridge club or the soccer game with other people. but when push comes to shove, they are on a team and they are to win. and i think it is quite compartmentalized. that is what his life was like. host: why would we not suspect that you are a member of the c.i.a.? guest: i don't think so. why would i be out making movies? host: it could be part of the disinformation or information of the c.i.a. guest: that

we're not the same, jews and catholics. are not the same, and need to preserve their own identities, but they can do that through peaceable co-existence. woman: anyone like to offer something like that? for jewish people to understand what makes the christian people uncomfortable? is there anything? that i am somehow responsible for all of the hurt and anguish of the jewish people in the past. and i have to say it prevents me then from hugging this man next to me and feeling good about him. right, in answer to that, that's the point. if there were more people like her who would be uncomfortable because i am here, then maybe we might have an answer to where we're going. woman: if we had more christian people who felt the way she does, absolutely. oh, good, and he gets a hug after all. why is it difficult or impossible for a jewish and christian couple to marry in the jewish faith? how could you possibly ask a person to suddenly turn off their heart and turn off their emotions and turn off possibly 20 years of an upbringing t

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you know i went to all catholic schools. work out. we can talk about that another time. >> i need to go some where. trying to got to vegas for new year's. let's start a collection plate. yeah, snake eyes! ha-ha! collection plate. [ thunder rumbling ] [ birdrds chirping ] [ gunfire ] [ licopter blades whirring ] [ gunfire ] [ explosion ] [ gunfire, whirring fades ] [ veteran ] i've never been the type to ask for help, but i had enough. [ operator ] thank you for calling the veterans crisis li, how can i help you? [ veteran ] life still has its challenges, but my family and i can deal with them better now. [ male announcer] veteransrisis line. it's your call. >>> making news this morning, behind bars. >> new charges send jerry sandusky to jail, locking up the former coach a month after the penn state sex scandal shocked the nation. but could he still go free? >>> and millions will be waking up to a fresh coat of snow. a commuter mess from virginia to maine. >>> and one peppy point of view. seeing the game from a cheerleader's

had strict racial attitudes, intolerance for anyone who was not catholic. i look at a lot of black ministers and what went on in the black church. i was caught up with those who were in cadillacs and shiny suits that i was with those who were quieter in their style. when dr. king stepped into my life, and i found i had to become engaged within reason of him, it was his vision of how he saw our task that attracted me deeply to the idea i thought his idea was the best i had heard. i have often said that -- paul rosen gave me the spine for my manhood, dr. king gave me my spirituality. between these two men, these fierce forces that nurtured me, i found i and then all i needed to have to endorse the meeting -- mission i had was correct and dr. king, when he and i met i said i am not of the church. i am from the church and i look at the church with great caution. whether it is catholicism, what they did with the great historical evil that they did, when you look at those who most morally justified slavery, you will find that the church was central to that fact.

a former priest says roman catholics have wrestled with that. word "brothers," is a problem with the question of dogma driving interpretation. so we have a greek word with a meaning of "brothers," and anyone looking at the text would say, are these the brothers of jesus? >> the apocryphal gospels presented the brothers and sisters as the children of joseph from a first marriage but the catholic and apocryphal do not always agree. >> church believes that mary remained a virgin after the bitionz -- after the birth of jesus. the brothers and sisters were cousins. >> but that is piety driving the interpretation, so one translation rather than being "brothers," is "cousins." questions of joseph's age is a dilemma for some over the virgin birth. >> it is critical we believe in the virgin birth because that preserves the seamlessness of christ. in the early church the concern was on jesus' define origins and on the virgin conception and birth. >> you look at the gospel story, the christmas story, you see there is an effort to make jesus competitive wit