. >> so dana, cathy bhutto from johnson & johnson.when you talk about -- i think several of you mentioned that performance-based or risk-sharing agreements are kind of money-back guarantees, and they're not. we've entered into probably a dozen different arrangements around the world. and actually they're more like what herve just described. i don't know if you heard his description. they are based on certain metrics of what would be considered success in the way a drug is being used in a population. money-back guarantee is not a risk-sharing agreement. it's shifting risk to the manufacturer 100% for 100% efficacy. they really depend on their being a very good diagnostic to see whether therapeutic benefits has actually occurred or not so they're very hard to execute. so i want to be clear that people shouldn't be thinking about themselves too simplistically. and my question is really back, i think, herve's point just now which is, i thought the panel was going to address more directly this issue of how payment policy can actually stimu

. >> so dana, cathy bhutto from johnson & johnson.when you talk about -- i think several of you mentioned that performance-based or risk-sharing agreements are kind of money-back guarantees, and they're not. we've entered into probably a dozen different arrangements around the world. and actually they're more like what herve just described. i don't know if you heard his description. they are based on certain metrics of what would be considered success in the way a drug is being used in a population. money-back guarantee is not a risk-sharing agreement. it's shifting risk to the manufacturer 100% for 100% efficacy. they really depend on their being a very good diagnostic to see whether therapeutic benefits has actually occurred or not so they're very hard to execute. so i want to be clear that people shouldn't be thinking about themselves too simplistically. and my question is really back, i think, herve's point just now which is, i thought the panel was going to address more directly this issue of how payment policy can actually stimu