by the 1860's, you have people like thomas moran, george catlin had been painting in the west, and they would go with some of the expeditions to the west. you had an artist. he had a- cartographer. the maps themselves, and steve aaron mentioned he wanted to talk more about maps. but maps themselves are in some ways a romantic rendering. if you see a map that looks like oh, i can follow that river and have a farm there and do that kind of thing, those maps erase as much as they depict. i think your question opens up an enormous terrain of, what are thatisual representations we make in order to achieve the end and fulfill the values that we have? prof. blackhawk: i think we have time for one more question. we have two hands up. thomas hart benton, senior -- can you talk more about his feelings on slavery? we know how his son felt, but how about him, the senator? off. sides: he was the uncle the painter -- a great uncle, i think. thomas hart benton -- i am no expert on him, but his views on slavery or complicated. he liked everything to do with misery and slavery. missouri and slavery. he