this is something cbo said is part of the mix. well, in the hurly-burly of the debate where gdp is kind of elevates a elevates above everything and labor supply, that's a big negative. it is not don's fault or cbo's fault, this is what happens when metrics and labor supply are elevated above others. the social wellfair of the nation was enhanced by unlocking job lock. so a diminished labor supply is not an obviously bad thing unless you're fetishistic with labor supply or gdp. i also think increase of voluntary part time work, unlocking of job lock is a very good thing but i think it's outside the scope of dynamic scoring in a way that's dynamic. >> but that's just saying that congress should not make all of its decisions based on the scores. that they can decide that it will cost something but it's worth it because it has goals. that's true of any of the scores. doug elmendorf said when he did the health care evalvation for clinton that this should not be the only part of the criteria. >> i think if wise people were suggesting th

this is something cbo said was part of the mix. bat and hurly-burly of the debate where gdp is kind of elevated above everything and labor supply about everything that's a big negative. backing out to be there was a big dust up that this is not don's fault, not cbo's fault this is what happens when metrics like labor supply and gdp are elevated above all others. the social welfare of the nation was enhanced by unlocking job losses. and so a diminished labor supply is not an obviously bad thing unless you think about labor supply and gdp. i like it a lot but i think it increase involuntary part-time work via unlocking of job loss is a very good thing but i think it's outside the scope of dynamic scoring in a way that is problematic. >> but that's the thing that congress should not make all its decisions based on the scores that they could decide that this will cost something but it's worth it because it has goals. is putting an awful lot, that's true of any of the scores. doug elmendorf i said i think in public, and bob reischauer d

well, since it is allocated year by year, cbo couldn't score it. that would create a negative bias in terms of which spending would have a positive growth affect. >> again, this is a distinction between what is inadequate with the current system. to have information about what happens to our economy when you spend more on education to the extent we can get that information, is very interesting. the fact that we have budget rules that count a dollar in the tenth year the same as a dollar in the first year and completely ignore a dollar in the eleventh year, yeah. that's a process that is in need of improvement but, you know, having analysis that does show us what happens in those years still helps people figure out how to vote on the economy. >> questions on anything. eric. >> very small technical question. in looking at the affordable care act jared mentioned job lock and i'm sure that labor supply issues are taken into account. since the purpose of the act was to improve access to health insurance and the health of the population, is there any way

the congressional budget act that established the cbo has been inerpreted as mandating the cbo to provide point predictions or scores of the budgetary impact of legislation. the scores are conveyed to leaders of congress, and they're not accompanied by measures of unternty. there are various things the cbo does that does express uncertainty but not the scores. i -- one notable example that i've used on a case study in my book was the scoring of the affordable care act, and it's a quote from the letter that doug sent to speaker pelosi back in 2010, the cbo and jct estimating that both pieces of legislation -- people will remember there were two pieces of legislation. would produce a net reduction of $138 billion in the debt. so the question is what does that $138 billion reduction really mean? plus or minus $5 billion? plus or minus $50 billion or whatever? doug will remember, douglas holtz-eakin wrote in the new york times that the real number was going to add to the deficit by $562 billion. his estimate and the cbo estimate were off by $700 billion. so what i'd argue is that the cbo shou

>> so it started actually prior to my arrival at cbo. it was pretty clear during the selection process is a something important to members both sides of the aisle, and both sides of the congress, and so you know i went into cbo you know basically with the belief that it was a good thing to sort of look at a policy change and find out all its effects but it did make any sense to me to exclude the growth effects and editing of the a matter of response, you want to look at before and after and everything in between. and the question became windy you do it lacks it seemed to me that the president's budget was the ideal place to do because it is the most fully specified single set of policy initiative you don't have to worry about the there's still something to worry about and that seemed like a great thing to do. it gave you the right comparison because every president's budget is dynamic score. if you read them from this president, bush, clinton, it always has these numbers are full implications of the president's plan. so that was the righ

what was life like before the cbo? when everybody was making up their own numbers? i certain remember back -- the issue, social security, before we got indexing for inflation, so the issue was how much should we raise benefits this year and what are the political pressures and what kind of limits can we set on it so scoring set the limit but it was all made up scoring because the system had no automatics and the scoring b@ú$ was made up -- here's a formula. here's a number. so congress could hide behind the number when beneficiaries wanted bigger things i think scoring really matters, even as imperfect as it is. >> pass the mike back to representative cooper. >> i love the british way of whole of government accounting and also on a commercial basis, which i take to mean a cruel accounting. here austerity was caused by state and local employees as federal government was trying to do the right thing. so few of our colleagues have any idea of what a fiscal gap is, much less how large it is. >> the other panelists? steve g

id hai r kd ga that rember wang a was e inon ns vsehe cbo a cbo won ev th tt was kd my in u wwe tou e tgh s but h a good yr this f and is f wah the s esble to la t gu he wi he e h -- e'elainto d >y kiel nt on s. y' gst ma le lon at a jam ov ws" c't do mu er tn. " ne" ins 0 wi tala ear nnl, metlost i murp and kenodrs traic. cily n, c , ente con t i jim ne nigh "an ns" snsed by eins chlet, dr20 equox at jsey ie dle p,n for see. vit elns at hi, anne. how are you doing? hi, evelyn. i know it's been a difficult time since your mom passed away. yeah. i miss her a lot but i'm okay. wow. that was fast. this is the check i've been waiting for. mom had a guaranteed acceptance life insurance policy through the colonial penn program, and this will really help with the cost of her final expenses. they have been so helpful and supportive during this time. maybe i should give them a call. i really could use some more life insurance. is it affordable? it costs less than 35 cents a day-- that's pretty affordable, huh? less than 35 cents a day? that's less than the cost of a postage stamp. so, you said

>> so it started actually prior to my arrival at cbo. it became pretty clear during the selection process that this was spg that was important to the members both sides of the aisle. both sides of the congress. >>> as a matter of principles, you want to look br e before and after and everything in between. it seemed to me that the president's budget was the ideal place to do it because it's the most fully specified single set of policy initiatives. so that seemed like the right thing to do. it also gave you the right comparison. every president's budget is dynamically scored. if you read them, this president, bush, clinton, it always says these numbers are contingent on the president's plan. so that was comparison in my view. that was something that was pretty uncharted. i don't think you should think of those as anything other than guidance. you have to use the models for some help. but you never have anything in the model that the congress or the president imposes. those things are incredibly clever. how do you present the results? how

i want to thank maria and her staff for doing a really stellar job of trying to help the different cbos work together and i think the challenge for you supervisors is really to have the city departments do the same thing and i am hoping that the larger committee can do that because i think that is one of the stumbling blocks that we face and not having enough cooperation with the city departments and the cbos and making things better here in san francisco. >> thank you. i had no choice about letting jenn work on this. [laughter] she's everything -- my time. maria, executive director of dcyf, did you have any comments you wanted to make? >> good afternoon supervisors. i am director of the department. i just want to say first of all happy new year but i want to echo all of the sentiments and acknowledgments and thanks that everyone has said already. i do also want to emphasize that just how hard jenn and beth worked on this particular ordinance and then jenn on just the charter with the other supervisors. i think she's done a phenomenal job and she's been very easy to work with so i reall

those taxes just aren't covered by cbo and people wonder why economists are unhappy with cbo's track record. they left 15 taxes off. gerri: unbelieverrable. steve, fascinating study that want you to comment on. there is a new study out showing that texas is single-handedly responsible for all the net jobs in the economy. how can that be true? >> from 2007 through the end of 2012 texas, texas created more jobs than the other 49 states combined. rick perry pretty good story there to tell, doesn't he, gerri. gerri: the republic of texas. they don't look to washington so say, thanks so much for the help. >> right. obviously this is driven by the energy boom that happened in texas. texas has nearly tripled its oil and gas production the last several years. just the result of the fact, if you read my book, gerri, on the wealth of states, texas just does about everything right. they have no income tax. they are a right-to-work state. they have a light touch of regulation. all of those things bringing jobs and bringing capital and businesses into section sass. a million 1/2 people just one s

irrespective of cbo numbers and so forth. we need to correct that anomaly, which i believe was unintended. in a bipartisan way. we pass this bill with 18 democrats supporting out of the house last congress. my hope is in this new era of bipartisanship, as i hope it will be others will join. people like congressman lapinski, we can pass it not only out of house but of the senate. i hope the president will consider his visceral opposition to improving our nation's health care laws. i yield back. >> can i just comment? >> certainly. >> i'm sorry. it isn't wages. the 5 -- $53.2 billion is essentially the cost of doing this. and let me just read in terms of the impact on part-time from the administration's -- statement of administration policy. while the administration appreciates the concerns that result from the current 30-hour definition of full-time work there's no evidence that this is caused a broad shift to part-time work today. according to data from the bureau of labor statistics since the affordable care act became law,

what does cbo do? they make an estimate that is thought of as conventional score -- scoring you change a tax rate that lowers the tax rate, you're taxing less than the revenues come down. you cut the reimbursement rate and the costs of medicare go down. the question has been raised particularly on the tax site, i'll get to it on the other side, that well, let's lower -- if we lower tax rates out there, marginal tax rates, that will stimulate economic growth. let's be clear, republicans and democrats, all of us, we want economic growth. part of this debate has been precipitated by a weak economy over the last many years in terms of our growth, potential growth in our economy. there has been an incentive. why can't we get more growth in the economy and for members coming in to congress, on the republican side, and yesterday and the rules they adopted, they had -- in the house, they adopted a rule that says for score keeping purposes of major legislation, that being tax legislation, or spending legislatio

i don't think there is any doubt they will get a cbo director who will be willing to push that.hat will be the litmus test and make tax cuts look less expensive, not increase the deficit is much, therefore, not be as big of a procedural hurdle. this shows you this is more political. this is not a question of compromising and getting things done, but a question of showing our constituents that you are willing to support what they want. >> that is so discouraging to hear for those who are cynical that both sides can work on something governing together, i know you're skeptical, can you give us any reason to be less skeptical about what is going to happen in washington this year? >> actually, no. >> thank you for that. >> so we're finished. >> you have been wonderful support to "surveillance" deficit is under 3%? that is a miracle. that is phenomenal. >> it is. we have had taxes going up, tax revenue going up across states and across the federal government, and that is one of the reason, by the way, that the supply and treasury market is down. >> are there going to be fewer bonds?

cbo also now projecting economic growth of 2.8% for 2015. the big picture here for investors for now is that deficits are way down since the financial crisis and stable as a percentage of gdp but only for a few more years according to the cbo. then without any big changes to taxes or spending especially in entitlements deficits start to grow again as a percentage of gdp, hitting $1.1 trillion in 2025, a decade from now and 4% of projected gdp that year. debt will pile on debt, creating quote, serious negative consequences for the economy and policymakers eventually heightening the risk of a fiscal crisis. melissa. melissa: peter, all right the numbers are so big they might as well be in pesos we're up to our debt in eyeballs. isn't that what he just said? let's bring in our very own charlie gasparino dan henninger editorial page director "wall street journal." lis wiehl is here fox news analyst. it is ridiculous. we're up to eyeballs in debt. >> it shows how important it is to grow the economy to implement pro-growth policies. when the econo

he has been crunching the numbers from the cbo on the 2015 budget outlook.e will see if anything is new when "bottom line" continues. ♪ >> welcome back. this is "bottom line" on bloomberg television. streaming on your tablet, phone, and bloomberg.com. president obama and congressional republicans are on a collision course over the budget. next week the president will spend -- and send his pending plan to capitol hill where the republicans are working on a budget of their own. peter cook has more on the battle ahead. peter, is the period budget calm about to come to an end? >> it is, thanks to the ryan murray budget deal in 2013, the budget control act in 2011 and which gave the sequestration, we have largely been on cruise control the last couple of years with a few minor skirmishes. today with the first major budget hearings, that is about to change. the big deal is february 2. for the first time in his presidency, he will submit a budget to congress controlled by republicans and that means that it will be ignored even more than it usually is. we know that

>> my current status is to be the director of cbo. my term ended on january 3 but under the budget act of 1974, directors can continue to serve until after the terms of expired until new directors are appointed. and i like the job a lot so i am continuing to serve. i expect to do that, unless and until a new directors appointed. whether a new director will be appointed and one that would occur, i do not know. and i will not be the first person to go on the first person to tell you. that decision -- to know or the first person to tell you. that decision rests with the senate. and he will speak to it when they want to speak to it. >> liz. can you talk about your estimate that by 2039, public debt will exceed 130% of gdp? as of the last time that happened was after world war ii -- you say the last time that happened was after world war ii. >> this is a projection from the long-term outlook last summer, we look 45 years. -- 25 years. we thought that under current laws, that would exceed 100% of gdp within 25 years. we have not formally up

>> my current status is to be the director of cbo. my term ended on january 3 but under the budget act of 1974 directors can continue to serve until after the terms have expired until new directors are appointed. i like the job a lot so i'm continuing to serve. i expect to do that unless and until a new director is appointed. whether a different director will be appointed and if so who that will be and when that will occur, i don't know. and i'm not going to be the first person to know or the first person to tell you. i think that decision rests with the budget committees and the leadership of the house and the senate, and i'm content to leave with them and they think they will speak to the matter when they want to speak to it. >> can you talk about your estimate that by 2039 public debt will exceed 100% of gdp? you said that's the last time that happened was just after world war ii. that was a time of unparalleled economic growth. you want to talk about that concern? >> yes. this is a projection from our long-term outlook last summer

twenty-five years from now, the cbo projects 100% of the gdp will be equal to our data. neil: meanwhile, let's talk about another waste of time. >> i'm just saying. it's a waste of time. a waste of time. >> so what we need to do is define the executive branch. neil: get ready for round two. ♪ ♪ they challenge us. they take us to worlds full of heroes and titans. for respawn, building the best teractive entertainment begins with the cloud. this is "titanfall," the first multi-player game built and run on microsoft azure. empowering gamers around the world to interact in ways they never thought possible. this cloud turns data into excitement. this is the microsoft cloud. know that chasing performance can mean lower returns and fewer choices in retirement. know that proper allocation could help increase returns so you can enjoy that second home sooner. know the right financial planning can help you save for college and retirement. know where you stand with pnc total insight. a new investing and banking experience with personalized guidance and online tools. visit a branch,

the cbo says the deficit will be $468 billion this year. 2.6% of gdp. that's the smallest since 2007. the cbo says that falling oil prices will raise gdp by .3% this year. >> if mart pause of the critics of the labor supply. the cbo attribute that is to the retirement of baby boomers, which we expect, which will drive up future deficits for medicare and social security. also, because of some of the negative snent is in obama care. that is, the phase-out of subsidies at higher income, which may curb some people's ain't to supply their labor. >> all right, john harwood. we do appreciate it. stay safe, my friend. appreciate it. >> wells are being drilled, but not fractured. they're not getting everything out of the ground that they can, if at all, and cost cuts as we record a few weeks ago, are being demanded. as you said, received. it is a message the market may have also already received because look at these three-month returns for bakken exposed stocks. petroleum off 56%, and whiting petroleum down 52% in just 90 days. let us bring in now chris falknor

you cbo. you're not going to save the budget anything. you will open yourself up to another financial catastrophe. >> let me yield to my colleague from massachusetts who i think was making the.of differentiating on those rules as if they exist. i yield to mr. neel. >> we will we are trying to get to hear is the idea that their are economic outcomes that come from significant infrastructure investments that are not only long-overdue but have been resisted by the majority in the house. the path forward seems to me to be one that would include, for example an investment in two huge union stations, putting a lot of an -- a lot of construction workers on the job. children who live in communities that have first-class colleges have to go to the parking lot at the local library during the evening hours to connect to the internet. those are the sorts of measurements. if if we are only going to apply this to tax cuts it seems as though it is ill considered. if we decide to talk about long-term investments what better way to do it than improving ra

i think that they are delivered in the same spirit that cbos are, because it is understood that there is ununserncertainty about them. >> and also, when goldman sachs predicts what the fed is do going to do, their clientele may be as interested in uncertainty as the government even though there is uncertainty about what the long term equilibrium is going to be. >> and what impact would unsern ti uncertainty uncertainty, if if we focused on the ine equality of the wealth inequality, and closed that gap considerably, what impact would that have on the uncertainty for the future, especially as it relates to social security, medicare medicaid? thank you. >> if we made inequality disa disappear all oher things being equal? >> well, it is not going to disappear, but it seems to p be going in the wrong direction. >> well, going back to peter's point of the distortionary taxes, the enlargements in equity is going to be more equity so you will spend more to get it. so that also means that if if you have an e economy to lower the marginal tax rates to affect a policy's redistribution, it will e

locations for possible isolation in quarantine needs and collaborating with our partner agencies and cbo's know the word got out for ebola, we know the city felt it was prepared because of this team. thank you very much. [ applause ] >> please step forward so we can acknowledge all that are here. thank you. there is a photo op here. okay. amika, please come forward. she provided analysis and staff report for the mayor's 2013 universal health council. on july 2013, mayor asked her to include the stakeholders and data driven process to examine san francisco's implementation of the federal affordable care act and it's integration in our own health and security plan. the final report issued in january of this year. the topic was controversial and the ten adversarial. micka remained the focus was on the staff. micka help identified the key issues in order to do its work and draft the key issues. she planned with meeting and planning and evaluation of logistics. it was successful to its success and certainly helped this commission through the issues. thank you very much, and congratulations a. [

dave: the cbo not taking sides in this debate. estimates of the cost of obamacare, the provisions of the obamacare act establish new programs they were unprepared to estimate. and they spawned more programs and new penalties involved, once they factor all these things, that is the cost per person of all the government's inclusions in various health care programs because of obamacare, $2 trillion is how much the insurance subsidies will cost over a ten year period and that involves $643 billion in brand new taxes. much greater than the original estimates because we didn't know what was in the program until we passed it and now the we passed it, this is an albatross that is around a legacy of president obama's presidency just like iraq was for george bush, obamacare is an albatross that will live with the obama presidency throughout history. stuart: it is around the neck of america's middle-class. these other people strivers of this world. >> what is president going to do? doubling up on those. in the state of the union address, he

cbo has updated? >> yes. so let me talk -- for the coverage provisions of the affordable care act and to be clear what we mean by that the affordable care act change a lot of teachers compassed in programs and the taxco. we generally talk about them and a few large buckets. one being the provision expand health insurance coverage like the expansion of medicaid and the subsidies to insurance exchanges and waited provision. other provisions mostly involving large changes to the medicare program and significant changes to the tax code. provisions i will focus on now are the ones involving expansion of health insurance. for those provisions, we have made a significant downward revision to the estimated cost over the next decade, delegation about $100 billion, 7% less than what we expected last year. and relative to our projections in march 2010 when the affordable care act was enacted the cost of those insurance coverage provisions between 2015-2019, which was the last five years which we made estimates i

and the cbo takes a looked at growth potential of the u.s. economy and marks it down 2.3%.nt wrings his hands and says the middle class success damaged. yes, they are. what we need is a completely different strategy. what we get is the same speech. lou: and from the republicans are we going to get the same drill as well, less regulation lower taxes, and haven't we also experimented with that mantra and found it wanting? >> perhaps we haven't experimented with it enough or in the right way. lou: i like that. >> i was looking at very interesting data. among advanced economies, the two countries that have done the best of late in terms of advancing lower middle class and middle class households have been australia and canada and both countries are not shy about developing their natural resources. in this country, we have a different attitude especially as far as regulation is concerned. lou: doug, do you think those are good analogs for the united states and their policies for us to repair if we want to achieve the same health of our middle class? >> look, if the president's a

what the cbo tells us, as more and more baby boomers retire, i think something like 10,000 a day, thosell return. unless we get back to 4% growth, something you and i spent your lifetimeses trying to get at. >> steve, one of the things he will talk about tomorrow night and propose again, getting rid of inheritance and property. we're launching a show called "strange inheritance" on fox business. >> that is the death tax, cheryl. >> you pay taxes your whole life. >> right. >> next then you know you pass to the heirs it is taxed again the this will hurt all americans. they will be alerted to this and not like it. >> you know who gets really hit bit tax, and i have done a lot of research, cheryl. basically family-owned businesses, sometimes first or second or third generation family-owned businesses where the parent, the founder keeps plowing money into that business to grow it. if you start taking 40 or 50% of that away at time of death you will kill family-owned businesses in america. that is the backbone of our economy. david: great stuff. steve moore. we have to leave it at that. great

i do see the cbo will say, hey, we have to move another five years, and we'll move it out another fiveember, social security was created way long ago when the -- charles: it was a scam when it was created. >> the -- when the average person died at 67, 68. charles: right. >> and they're going to move the goalpost. >> there's only so far they can move the goalpost until you're out of the stadium, that's the issue here. charles: i mean, driving -- i mean, this is the story of america right now because it's the story of europe. someone tweeted me the other day and was angry because i made disparaging remarks about the greek people and being on welfare. my man, that's what you call it. when you get two months off for vacation, when you can retire because you're a hairdresser at 50, that's called welfare. and they have driven the up to the edge of the cliff. we are driving towards this cliff. we can play these cbo games all we want, but at some point we meet that cliff. >> if the left and right truly want to do social security, and we're all going to argue against it, the age goes up and the

and we have gone to a more regular application, training process, of our cbos so that they know how to get the clients ready to apply. and we now do stronger hiring events and partnerships with cpmc. thank you. >> i am with the department of health and this slide is the summary of the 2013, healthcare commitments that were incorporated into the development agreement and i will go through each one. first is the base line, charity care commitment. the purpose of this was to insure that cpmc will maintain their current level of service when they entered into the development agreement, and that any other healthcare obligations would come on top of the commitment, and that they were already giving to the low income residents of san francisco. serve a base line of 30,445 of patients each year and insures that everything else is in addition to what they did at the time that they entered into the contract and so for the prorated portion of the development agreement, they serve, 4421, unduplicated patient and they exceeded that by serving 5687, this provision, has been verified, and their compl

beginning positions which is very important and the warriors have been committed working with other cbo's to support enhancing lives here in san francisco so i of course speak on behalf of the work with ycd but there are others they have done tremendous work with and supported over the past year. this is prior to of course arrival in san francisco and they have paid attention to some of the things and concerns that have been express said and i am excited about having the team here in san francisco. >> thank you. >> >> thank you. >> the next person is ace washington. >> good afternoon commissioners. happy new year happy new year. >> happy new year happy new year. >> or is it new year? i don't know about happy so i am here setting the parallel let make no mistake warriors i am here supporting you but i am here talking about the fact s and the figure s and the history. now mission bay going -- [inaudible] there was a black man in head of the project, mr. jim jefferson. okay. he died two years after that but that same black man was the creator of the jazz preference vaigz district so the hist

the cbo is forecasting economic growth of 2.9% and low inflation for the next few year >>> good news from business owners today. a new survey from the national association for business economics found that many companies are optimistic that continued improvements in business conditions will result in more hiring and higher wages. and more than half of owners say their businesses or industries will benefit from the sharp drop in energy prices. >>> overseas now with economic reverberations coming out much ru ratings agency snp cut the credit rating to junk status. with the election of a far left anti-austerity party in greece that nation's credit rating could be in the crosshairs ahead of a scheduled reassessment in march. >>> with a radical leftist elected as the new prime minister of greece it's setting the stage for a showdown with the nation's biggest lenders who have lent the struggling economy hundreds of billions of dollar that's got investors worried about the stability of the entire european economy and the future of the euro currency. michelle has more now from athens. >> rep

and conversely cpmc has received a lot of education around sort of our cbo's and how they prepare clients for opportunities not just theirs but broader type of training and skill development. i feel like we've gotten stronger but i have heard comments around trust and perception and cultural competency and obviously that's a big part of the work that we want to do moving forward and the funds that we have to focus on. >> thank you very much. the counseling medical center also has the responsibility to ensure those structural barriers are removed. when we heard from the three gentlemen who had three interviews and no feedback and you have the community to ensure that we have the people in the community who get the job and they are discouraged, that's a problem. so we need to fix that. >> yeah, we hear it. >> thank you. >> thank you. commissioner richards? >> just quickly, those kinds of things we are talking about happen everywhere. the company i just came from apply and they have an interview and it takes forever and they never hear back. specifically the feedback to why the candidate did

this is not changing the sun sun and the earth as it relates to scoring at cbo. what we said is if a policy would result in a change, that was greater than .25% of gross domestic product, about $40 billion, three bills in the last congress would have, under that provision to then you ought to be up to look at what the effects would be. you ought to account for those effects and you ought to be able to use those in a process from the squid standpoint. this is a small step in the right direction. second big issue that's coming up quickly is the sustainable growth rate, sgr, the doc fix to it expires as you know on march march 31. it is time to fix this. this has been broken since it was instituted that could be broken for the last 12 to 13 years to every single year congress runs around try to figure out how to find the money to cover the whole, to cover the patch to make a so we don't push more and more physicians out of the practice of medicine or caring for medicare patients. this is important in a real way to get not just make the numbers add up on the page but