and ccny was the source of that education. david: did you ever think you would be the chairman of the joint chiefs and the secretary of state of the united states? colin: no. people ask me that all the time. it usually starts out with, what year did you graduate from west point? i did not go to west point. i could not have aspired to go to west point. well, did you go to the citadel, or did you go to texas a&m, or virginia military institute? i said, no, they wouldn't let black guys in then. it was beyond any possible level of aspiration or expectation, but it happened. why did it happen? because i got a quality public school education that i did not know was of that high-quality at the time. elementary school, junior high school, high school, and then ccny let me in with my modest average. then it was rotc and ccny that really made the difference. david: you were a geology major. did you think you are going to go into the geology world? colin: no, i was a geology major because i busted out of civil engineering. ok? now you kn

ccny had done it perfectly.rned a little bit working for six years in the south bronx at jay sexers which sold children's furniture and toys. after i had been doing this a couple of years he came up to me and put his arm around my shoulder and said colleague, colleague -- they get is diminutive -- i don't think you can stay in the store. this will go to my daughters and their husbands. i want you to get your education and go somewhere and do something. i had no intention of staying at the store and being somebody who just drags boxes around. it touched me so deeply i remembered for the rest of my life, and wrote about in my memoir, he thought enough of me to tell me that i should get my education and move on. that is what i did and ccny was the source of that education. david: did you ever think one day you would be the chairman of the joint chiefs of the secretary of the united states? >> no. it usually starts with, what year did you graduate west point? i did not go to west point. i could not aspire to go to w

anyhow, ccny does play a role in here, and a very, very interesting role. and there were some quite dynamic people there, including a man who is still alive now, 98-year-old blaine weiss, who i interviewed. he was a classmate of koval's at ccny and then he was a colleague at oak ridge. so, very interesting, yeah. >> a lot of people that were involved in espionage were there. but we can come to that in the afterchat. i'm going to hand it over to amanda, i believe we have a lot of questions coming through. i'll just close out by saying it's quite interesting that koval left the united states to go back to the soviet union on a ship called "the ss america." >> right. >> which is interesting. anyway, over to amanda. >> oh, my gosh. >> thank you for picking up on that, andrew. i almost didn't include that in the book. did i keep the details about how the wood came from oregon and the paintings from new york and all that? yeah, it was very much the symbol of america. so i'm glad i kept it in, thanks. >> those are those pages where fact really trounces fiction. yo

this was a guy who started out in rotc at ccny. there was no west point. this is a guy who grounded up and then executed as an officer to the many steps to the colin powell we know today. jonathan: the statement is, general colin powell, former u.s. secretary of state and chairman of the joint chiefs of staff passed away due to convocations from covid-19. he was fully vaccinated. we want to thank the medical staff for their care and treatment. we have lost a remarkable and loving husband, father, grandfather, and a great american and they signed it off the powell family. lisa: he was one of the most beloved politicians and respected as being as honest as he could be throughout his tenure. i think there will be a further discussion that he was fully vaccinated and he still passed away from complications. this will raise questions among the public about efficacy as well as who still needs to be careful and take precautions. jonathan: the control room wanting to get a voice from washington. we will have our correspondent in the line. i think it would be best

we spoke to some of the students at ccny at the colin powell school just this week. >> he's not gone.grated from sin gal and met powell at his undergraduate graduation. >> last time i had a handshake with him was 2019. we have a selfie together. he asked me what i wanted to do. i wanted to serve like he did. >> we found that sense of service among all students, rachel is a senior considering a career in law. >> this was my first choice school. this school uniquely fosters public service to the community. >> powell's passing came as a shock, especially since the students watched an online talk held by the general just last month. >> most of you, i think, are not old enough to have gone through -- >> he was inspirational. i feel like yes, we mourn him today, but he lives in all of our hearts, and beyond the school walls. and i think yeah, he's an inspiration. >> wendy is a senior and hopes to join the foreign service. her parents are from nigeria. she's a first generation american, like a lot of ccny's 12,000 students, just like powell. >> for me, i would say as someone who is also firs

ccny? the city college of new york. that is when i had the punchline , i set out up in the south bronx in harlem. when i was in the south bronx, the educational experience. it was in the corner of gilley street and i said to myself, i am full of years old, everybody breaks out into laughter. -- i was 12 years old, i said i'm want to be the chief of staff. , everybody picks into laughter. segregation still existed. -- i was 12 years old, i said i am going to be the chief of staff. everybody went into laughter. so rotation is still existed. -- creation still existed. segregation still existed. >> the sergeant said go out there and do it. >> you are stationed in the south where on the basis you are treated like you were a white person. when you left the bases, you are not treated well? >> i had gotten married and gone off to vietnam early on when it was just starting up. i came back from that tour, i have been away for a whole year. i saw the wife and the baby, a little boy named michael who i had never met. one night i wa

ccny. >> what's that? >> city college of new york, that's it. and you became a four star general? and that's when i have the punchline. there i was, growing up in the south, bronx and harlem and when i was in. south bronx, the seconds educational experience, there i was. i was on the corner of 163rd and kelly street one day and i said you think what? at 12 years old, you're going to grow up and become chairman of the joints chiefs of statue. everybody breaks out in laughter. i latched. segregation still existed for the whole country. it just ends ended for the military and i did the best i could. and what my n.c.o. sergeants told me when i got there trying to adjust to it off. they made it clear -- lieutenants powell, we don't care what color you are, where your parents came from, what school you will graduated from. the only thing we care about is your performance and from your performance, we want to see what your potential is. you understand? yes, sergeant, i understand. good, get out there and do it and that's what i-did for the next 30 years. david: sometimes you were station

2008, because he had always told me that his most important legacy was the colin powell institute at ccny, where he had gone as a son of immigrants, of jamaican immigrants in the bronx. obviously, a black person who cared so much, so deeply about people of color and about first generation americans and immigrant americans. and someone who had been active at howard university and other historically black colleges over the years, who had risen in the military, starting in vietnam, as a soldier in vietnam, and later, of course, becoming, you know, rising to the very top of the american military and then, as secretary of state under bush 43. but breaking with the bush administration in many ways. he was the only member of the bush 43 cabinet who argued against the second iraq war, the second gulf war, and who reluctantly testified at the u.n. in february of 2003 and also became persuaded by george tennet, really, at the cia, the weekend proceeding that testimony to go to langley and go over all the data. their claims of weapons of mass destruction, and was repeatedly trying to scrub that test

and still, at the end of his life, i think what he was proudest of was the colin powell institute at ccny. as the son of immigrants and jamaican immigrants in the bronx, the fact that he started an institute to help educate fellow immigrants and first generation americans, people of color, and others who could not afford to go to an ivy league school, he was so proud of that school and everything it achieved. he did so much for historically black colleges as well, for howard university. this man, i interviewed i think the last one on television with him was during the george floud protests and also i think back on what he did in afghanistan after the u.s. invasion, this was in 2002, we were in afghanistan. he was secretary of state, and the powell doctrine. he reshaped -- rebuilt the american military post vietnam and was able to have the wisdom to say among others, don't go in to iraq after that first gulf war, and argue against the second gulf war and the powell doctrine of the pottery barn doctrine, if you will, if you break it, you'll have to fix it. you own it. >> you break it, you b

brian: went to ccny, was able to say listen, i'm came from mea ger means, going through this using thellin powell that i walk away with, at least three times he's been on fox & friends is no matter what happened he always got this aur a of calm, cool, calculated and smart, and that would play a valuable role i think in the american dialogue. when you pulled him in, he demanded respect just by the way he held himself. ainsley: i'm sure the bush family will be releasing a tam at some point this morning. will: it's a very accurate characterization. one thing you gleaned if you listen to collin powell talk it was confidence and calm and bringing confidence to those in his audience those that listened certainly seems like a measured public speaker, even if one disagreed with his opinions and many on the right and republican party, conservative, trump supporters disagreed with many opinions in the end but respect the life he lived, the verse he gave, and the demeanor with which he approached his service. ainsley: he was a republican for so long and then became an independent when he disagree

ccny. well, what's that? city college of new york. and you became a four-star general. did you have a dream of becoming one? that is my punchline. i grew up in the bronx. there i was, on the corner one day, and i said to myself, you know what? you are going to become chairman of the joint chiefs of staff. everyone breaks out into laughter. it wasn't thinkable. i mean, we are talking about a point in time in this country where segregation still existed. it had just ended and the military but still existed in the whole country, and i did the very best i could. and with my -- and what my nco 's, sergeants told me when i got there, when i was trying to adjust to it all, powell, we don't care what color you are, where your parents came from, what school you graduated from. the only thing we care about is your performance. we want to see what your potential is. "do you understand?" yes, sergeant, understand. "good. get out and do it. and that is what i did for 30 years." host: joining us now is patrick penfield of syracuse university here t