but there was, i mentioned cecil gordon and his work on aircraft maintenance. in the british archives there was this memo from churchill the same month this work ban fully aware of it, fully supporting it mentioning, i understand this is going to be able to triple the number of flying hours simply, please continue with the study. it was very interesting. on the american side, similarly, the national archives here in washington has a lot of the reports, a lot of internal memos. and a number of the sign terrorists -- almost all of them are dead now -- but in the 1970s some of the professional societies involved in operations research did some oral histories, so there's some nice rem -- reminiscences. very spotty, of course, but a few nice, personal, telling details come through. >> you mentioned that one of the important aspects of operations research during world war ii was that the scientists and mathematicians weren't part of the military. >> right. >> is that the case today? >> well -- >> and how does that affect -- >> yeah. it's been a fascinating question t