ago we have here in the studio also a representative of human rights watch to williamson he is the director of the europe and central asia division of human rights watch thank you so much for joining us you nice to be here what you say is the overall message in this report as my director ken roth says where there's been people standing up to a populist political leaders then there's been some progress on human rights or at least efforts to hold back severe criticism if you take the elections in france in two thousand and seventeen for instance the victory of president raul shows that people were willing to turn away from a populist message an embrace somebody who was standing off with human rights a small example in hungary for instance the government was trying to shut down an important university the central european university in budapest that didn't happen because people went out and protested against it even in the u.s. there was resistance to some of president trump's measures on migration on health on women's rights and so on so there was some some some progress despite a whole series of serious setbacks on human rights in

recta off to europe and central asia division of human rights watch. where you executive director had to say that europe has come in for a lot of criticism in the report by your organization give us give us more about what are your reasons for concern i mean had to do with the e.u. our headline this year is that the e.u. has been treating human rights as an optional extra and that certainly is the case to do with refugee migration policy the focus has been very much on securing borders keeping refugees away rather than giving them a humanitarian treatment when they arrive and applying a fair. refugee policy across the continent the efforts to push refugees away to places like libya and turkey are of serious concern. and the rise of populous as we said in countries like austria has been fueling anti immigrant anti asylum seeker messages across europe now describing human rights as an optional extra is a very damning criticism and one of the central concerns is that europe seems to have outsourced its refugee asylum politics beyond the borders of europe o

there speaking joining me now is she williamson the director of the europe and central asia division of human rights watch you it's good to have you back on the show so you know we we heard your boss there basically saying trump is part of the blame here for this increase in oppression but these these despots these dictators these authoritarian leaders weren't they oppressing their people before trump became president they would indeed us true but the message that he sent out on the very first day in office america first read for them human rights lost in a sense because they understood that's what he meant really that he didn't he wasn't going to focus on human rights and for countries like egypt and turkey and kazakhstan whose leader was in the white house this week the u.s. is an important a key partner one of the most important partners and if on the u.s. agenda with those countries human rights is at the bottom of the list or not even on the list it means those countries know they get a free pass you know we talk every time this report comes out and the report does have impact at least in the beginni