well, what some of the frustrations that chan mason had 40 years ago when she founded the organization and of the frustrations maybe you had in corporate publishing. sure. that's a really good question. certainly the industry become quite a bit more complex the past 40 years. so members facing unique challenges now that they didn't have to face then but one of the through lines from over the past four decades is that in-depth publishers simply do not have the same resources corporate publishers do so a corporate publisher has either publicly traded by harpercollins example is owned by news corp or there's a set of investors that are investing in that corporate publisher with an publisher. you have to think of it as a small business. oftentimes it's a family business. and so the having the resource to be able to compete with corporate publishers can be really challenging for those indie publishers. and also just being able to access the market. and that's become even more complex. so when john nathan founded ibp in 1983, the goal, it was really around marketing, trade, marketing and fue