in oakland, for example, oakland mayor chantelle, currently facing a recall and an unpopular former mayor, jean quan, nearly faced a recall, both one under ranked choice after multiple rounds when they didn't lead in the first round. now, because of that, some local voters see ranked choice as a way for a candidate who otherwise wouldn't have won to win. and by extension, maybe the system doesn't reflect popular will. how should we look at this? and as we talk about this, as you explain, i want to put up, you know, a screen that shows i think, the first round, eighth round and ninth round from that election in 2018, when chantelle won. >> right. i think it depends on how we define popular will. right. so in theory, ranked choice voting, you know, if you fully rank your preferences, then the person who wins is going to have a majority of support. after we consider all of those rankings and other candidates are eliminated. so it's one way to form a majority. and the popular will given again the exhausted ballots and continuing ballots. myself, i actually think that the previous system that