movements like the one that i was telling about at the case communication camp in berlin the chaos computer club which runs that events has maintained a separation i think from the military industrial complex that the american hackers happens there's been a slow co-opting of american american hacker community by the government i believe how is that happening well i just think that's where the money is so they're offering hackers that are offering jobs to the house alluding that's what i wrote a story a couple months ago about classified ads that explicitly say we're looking for hackers who can build now where you can you know write exploits and i don't think that i mean in some cases that might be reading exploits to tests defense systems but we know that the u.s. also created stuxnet this piece of malware that was used to shut down uranium enrichment facilities in iran so. it's it seems clear that some of the best american actors have been co-opted by the u.s. government for better or for worse what do you think motivates groups like wiki leaks and on a mess. paranoiac openly what do you think