chapin, who added that no before, was unlike -- i did not know before, was unlike charles colson. he was charming, and i think candid. he came to the interview which we did in new york -- ready to talk. and to preserve his story. some will say that he was just going to defend himself at the expense of the president, but he had remained close with the president. president nixon interacted with him after the president left the white house. he felt he needed to tell some stories to set the record straight. it was an amazing interview. it got him into trouble among his colleagues and lead to a controversy for the oral history program because he said something on tape that he did not say to the senate and did not say in the trial. something that the nixon group had always denied. >> that was? >> that it was richard nixon who was there when the dirty tricks campaign was ordered. that nixon was too smart to ordered -- he was sitting in the room. it was done in his office, which is why it was not taped. >> that was donald segretti. >> the dirty tricks campaign in the 1972 campaign -- pres

i think he is guarded and i think he -- i think that charles colson decided what he would, what he would say he did and nothing more. there was a set of things he would apologize for, and there is a whole, i think, ocean, a whole story out there that he never talked about and he took with him to the grave. he knew a lot more. that's just the sense. the second interview, i tried to push him beyond the bounds of the stories he told the history channel and other places and he got very uncomfortable. i hope i did it in a professional way -- i will leave it to the viewer to decide that. >> where you always off-camera? >> always. there were the first two -- i did the haig interview, had a number of colleagues participate, as well. it was just the videographer -- they included us in the beginning. but i preferred to be off-camera. when paul musgrave did the ones he did, he was also off camera. that is what gives the wonderful look -- it makes the interview useful in different formats. that's what i wanted. >> it comes up in the past about you being a canadian, a liberal, gay, and that richard n