he was fascinating because a lot of people think charles manson is a killer. in fact, he directed others to kill. >> manson personally killed just one of the nine victims, the cowboy and aspiring actor, shorty shea. still, manson is thought by most people to be a serial killer. the whole image is one of intense evil, i guess. a frightening character who might slash out at any moment. people almost seem to be afraid of him when they're in his presence. >> i think that's very accurate, assessment, that people are afraid of him and i think he enjoys scaring people. >> hello? >> how do you do, how do you do? >> in 1987, 18 years after the murders, manson agreed to talk with "today" show correspondent heidi schulman at san quentin state prison about the book "manson in his own words" an autobiography of sorts. told to former prison mate nuel emmons. >> if i like this book, there would be a lot of people that probably wouldn't buy it. but if i don't like it, everyone that doesn't like me will probably buy it. >> you said you weren't impressed with it. >> no, not real

so many people know charles manson.kind of the heisman trophy winner of mass murderers when it comes to fame. >> in 1970, it was prosecutor vincent bugliosi's job to prove that charles manson was responsible for the at a time and labianca slayings. >> the main defendant at the trial was obviously charles manson. why? i was alleging that he masterminded these murders. the problem is manson did not physically participate in the murders. he thought he would immunize himself from criminal responsibility by getting other people to do his bidding for him. now how did i connect him with the murders themselves? i proved to the jury through witnesses that manson was the only one who had a motive for these murders and that motive was helter-skelter. >> the jury was told there was this beatles song "helter-skelter" that manson became obsessed with. he thought it was telling him to start a race riot, turn the blacks against the whites. >> catherine share spent over a year living with the family. she recalls manson talking about a r

but with manson, they gained everything that was missing. >> in the summer of 1968, charles watson joinsanson family and moves to the group's home at spahn's movie ranch. the hollywood backdrop for episodes of "bonanza" and "the lone ranger." >> when i first got there, it was a lot of young people that loved each other and you just kind of fit in wherever you wanted to. no one was told what to do. we started out to be good children, that's the main thing. >>> this is where they live, among the stables, barns and phony buildings of an old run-down movie location 20 miles from los angeles. they call themselves "the family." >> in the summer of 1968, manson and a group of followers make their home at spahn's movie ranch. the 500-acre estate provides the group safe haven from a society they perceive as corrupt. >> the communal life of the manson family was really an exaggerated version of what lots of communes were like during that period of time. you know, lots of sex, lots of drugging. trying to get free sources of food by rummaging through supermarket trash bins for leftovers to people th

will get out, and we'll all go to the desert together. >> the jury hearing the charges against charles mansonnd three girl members of his so-called family brought in its verdict this afternoon. >> and outside the court, manson's girl followers got the news by radio. >> charles manson is guilty as charged. >> they have convicted these people, and you are next, all of you. there's a revolution coming very soon. >> today the judge formally passed sentence on charles manson and his girls. the death penalty, he said, for seven senseless murders. he said not only was the sentence appropriate, but almost compelled in this case. so death and the gas chamber, he said. >> the very name manson has become a metaphor for evil. catapulting him to almost mythological proportions. and there's a side to human nature, for whatever reason that, is fascinated by pure, unallowed evil. but if the death penalty is to mean anything in the state of california other than two empty words, this unquestionable was the proper case for the death penalty. >> the california supreme court ruled today that the death penalty is

's ass if my approvals sink below charles manson's, no one-- not you, not mellie, not america's baby, no one tells ion to war. am i making myself clear? crystal. good. nt to give me a time-out? fine. great. my garden's a weed patch. i haven't seen james in weeks. i'd relish the chance to get home before midnight. but before i go tend to my roses, plan of yours, this great plan... it's not yours. it's olivia's. and as lb descriptions here, keeping your wife on her leash, that's not in mine. (door opens) (camera shutter and projector clicking) quinn will be released in an hour. i want a car waiting. at her apartment 24/7. there are protesters outside the courthouse. we're not taking any chances. really? we're not gonna talk about what happened? . no, it doesn't. the jury was set to convict. you see their faces? they were as shocked as we were. we won this case. mm. live. our client, a 28-year-old girl, is going to live. and despite popular opinion around here, seriously? that trial was a joke. you know it, i know it, olivia knows it. she won't say it is 'cause she also knows a whole hel

but you take a person like charles manson or some of these killers today that murder all these children and things, i think it remains the proper punishment. it is up to the state to decide. it is up to the individual states to decide and nations to decide. i think scalia was right. although my guess was what scalia did was basically say decide this and that nobody can outlaw it at the federal level. >> a number of people have been sent to their death wrongly and we have -- we've had some people on death row and it's been discovered through d.n.a. evidence years later that they were innocent. so you're not always a hundred percent certain you're sending the "right person" to their death. as long as i've been politically aware, the catholic church has been opposed to capital punishment and i think that's the moral position. in fact, i had some good catholic friends who opposed abortion and felt that it was logically consistent to also oppose capital punishment. and throughout this country it is difficult to get pharmaceutical companies to even make the mixture to kill people. the states

i don't give a rat's ass if my approvals sink below charles manson's, no one-- not you, not mellie, notbbyists-- no one tells me when to take this great nation to war. am i making myself clear? crystal. good. you want to give me a time-out? fine. great. my garden's a weed patch. i haven't seen james in weeks. i'd relish the chance to get home before midnight. but before i go tend to my roses, let me just say, this plan of yours, this great plan... it's not yours. and as long as we're rewriting our job descriptions here, keeping your wife on her leash, that's not in mine. (door opens) (door closes) (camera shutter and projector clicking) quinn will be released in an hour. i want a car waiting. full security detail at her apartment 24/7. there are protesters outside the courthouse. we're not taking any chances. really? we're not gonna talk about what happened? we asked for acquittal. judge acquitted. it happens. no, it doesn't. the jury was set to convict. you see their faces? they were as shocked as we were. we won this case. mm. quinn is going to live. our client, a 28-year-old g

. >>> this one's about charles manson and the girls he persuaded to carry out his deadly mission. >> in our eyes, charlie could perform miracles. charlie was a god. >> manson's lost girls. each received life sentences for murder. james brolin's granddaughter plays one of the girls. >> she's wonderful and beautiful and ugly and loyal and she's, i just wanted to play her. i was excited to get into her shoes. like immediately, my parents were sending me clips and articles and everything. that was cool. >> atkins took part in all the murders. >> not that bad. a couple days in, you'll be back to normal. >> greer grammer, daughter of kelsey plays one part. >> there's definitely a lot of drug use, you see us smoking a lot. drugs are a very big part of who these people were. >> come to our ranch. charlie. >> who's charlie? >> everything. >> she was one of manson's followers. and the one who at the end testified for the prosecution in exchange for immunity. >> christian madsen is the son of -- he plays chris watson, convicted of seven manson killings. so fun, everyone loved him. jove jeff ward

if you have a special lock on a door and a locksmith can undo, and charles manson behind the door andand people he's going to kill, the locksmith saying i'm worried about this guy's privacy. charles: no, everyone's privacy. >> that is a false concern. it would be saying you can't issue a search warrant because some days -- >> not at all. >> just a minute, let me have my say here. this is outrageous that you can have a court order, we know whose phone it is, all they want to allow to continue to look for the pass code without the phone erasing itself, they're not asking apple to break into it for them, asking them to stop the process that makes it erase, and this is like regular law. they know what they need to access, it does not put anyone else at risk nor does it give the government access to anyone else's phone. charles: he wrote an article saying he sides with the tim cook, why? >> the fbi has been pressuring apple, in fact, pressuring lawmakers to change laws to require apple to build into the iphone a back door. the iphone that the terrorist had was an iphone 5c, it doesn't have

. >> charles manson has relented from killing people.an this year, manson, i would be more interested in talking about him with you, you pop culture savant. on sanders and basketball. this is historic. here he goes, one -- and their. it would be nice if we be see the whole -- there you go. take my word for first 2. look at this man, he is a machine. unbelievable. >> and you thought rubio was a robot. lou: i beg your towar pardon, you tooka wonderful athletic% operformance and sully it with an insult. >> ho dar how dare. >> you that say sweet spot like new hampshire for bernie. lou: in the zone. are you impressed. >> bernie was on his elementary school basketball time that won brooklyn borough championship, high was also captain of his track team, and took third place on new york indoor pile race. lou: i was a third grade hall monitor myself. . >> there's all this boycotting on, boycott the bag, give all of that to charity. lou: i wonder if the $200,000 worth of swag will influence them to break the boycott. >> lou, i lived in los angeles

. >> in 1987, the "today" show went to san quentin state prison and interviewed the infamous charles manson. he was unshackled and unapologetic. >> you know, if i wanted to kill somebody, i'd take this book and beat you to death with it. and i wouldn't feel a thing. >> the interview sparked controversy within nbc. >> we here on the "today" show staff debated among ourselves whether to air his answers. half or

. >> and she finally had to take a half million, much less -- >> charles manson relented from killingple, since he -- >> oh! >> if he were running, we would be more interested in talking about it with you. pop culture savant. >> savant. >> let's turn to sanders and basketball, because this is -- this is historic stuff. if we could show the senator on the court. here he goes. that's one. that's another. you know, it would be nice if we could see -- there you go. take my word for those first two. look at this man. he's a machine! unbelievable. >> and you thought rubio was a robot. >> i beg your pardon? you took that wonderful athletic performance and sullied it with -- >> how dare you? how dare you take my first talking point? and use it -- >> no, no. i know a lot about sports, as we all know, and i think we call that a sweet spot. >> oh, yeah. >> that's like new hampshire for bernie. a speet spot. >> sweet spot. >> in the zone as we say in sports. were you impressed? >> bernie was on his elementary basketball team that won the brooklyn borough championship. so this is probably not unex

. >> this population includes infamous criminals like juan corona, sirhan sirhan, and charles manson. built to hold the most violent offenders in the state, corcoran has seen its share of brutality. today, a fresh group of inmates arrives at receiving and release, no doubt aware of this prison's reputation. >> when i get on the bus, they called your names out to come off the bus, and they're teary-eyed coming to corcoran. it's a shock to them. i guess they have heard a lot about corcoran. >> what do you know about corcoran? >> what i know? i know it ain't no joke. that's what i know. i know this is serious business. >> corcoran is a pretty rough prison here. if you get a draw, it's one of the rougher prisons. >> this is how serious it is. it's a life or death situation. pretty much, yeah. it is like that. i don't care what they tell you. it is like that. okay? it is hardcore like that. >> corcoran's general population inmates are split into three main yards. the level one yard consists mainly of low-security inmates, many of whom are in on parole violations. "b" yard holds the medium-

here we have lynette squeaky -- [inaudible] a follower of charles manson. confronting gerald ford, she has a weapon on her, so it's not as direct. but 17 days later in san francisco sarah jane moore is actually going to point her weapon at the president and is going to lead to, indeed -- let me see, i've got this one. it shows you both of them. she gets a light sentence, released in 2007. same thing with sarah jane moore. and here's the scene i have in the book of the sarah jean moore shot and ford looking stunned as the shot is fired and, luckily, it does not hit him. actually, a marine knocked her hand and, therefore, he was not hurt. i've mentioned to people look at how he's stunned there, and some of my friends said, wasn't he always? [laughter] well, what is that, you know? so that's the scene that's in my book as well. all right. now, this is the story of the century. who would have been his replacement? nelson rockefeller, the former four-term governor of new york. the liberal republican who conservatives like ronald reagan hated. even today, particu

here we have a follower of charles manson. she has a weapon on it but doesn't withdraw it but she has it so it's not as direct. is going to -- show both of them. she gets a life sentence in 2007, same thing with moor and here is the scene i have in the book of shot and ford looking stunned as the shot is fired and luckily does note hit him. look at how he's stunned there and some of his friends say, you look at what is that. all right, now this is the story of the century. who would have been his replacement. rockefeller. ronald reagan hated. what kind of? rockefeller. they would kick you out of the room. he was very liberal for a republican. he tried to be president three times, failed to but he had tried. all right, but he was picked to be vice president and controversy about it. lasted four months the debates because he was very wealthy and was not liked by conservative republicans and southern democrats, finally confirmed but not easily like ford had been to replace agnew and twice in 17 days he could have been president o

here we have lynette, a follower of charles manson confronting president ford when he is in sacramentocalifornia, the state capital she has a weapon but she doesn't withdraw it. so it's not as direct. but 17 days later sarah jane is actually going to point a weapon at the president and is going to lead to she gets a life sentence in 2007 with their jane more and here's the scene i had in the book with their jane more shot and for looking stunned actually marine knocked her hands and therefore she was not hurt. i mention people look at how he's done there and some of my friends would say was and he always love when you look what is that that's in my book as well. now this is a story of the century. who would've been his replacement, nelson rockefeller, the liberal republican who conservatives like ronald reagan hated even today if you said you are rockefeller they would kick you out of the room he was very liberal, he had tried to be president three times, failed to but he was picked to be vice president he left for month of the debate because he was very wealthy and not liked by conser

remember, years ago, charles manson somehow got his hands on a cell phone.though, is really unusual in my opinion. you have, as pamela mentioned, the very tactical unit that was assigned to root out corruption, to root out drug smuggling involved in actual drug smuggling. i can tell you in my experience, that is very unusual. and i really wonder how far up this goes, because what you want to do, here you have eight federal indictments coming out of the u.s. attorney's office. you want the biggest person. you want the big fish. i suspect what we'll see is the very beginning of this investigation and people will start pointing fingers. so how far up did this go is the very question i have. >> sunny hostin, thank you very much. pamela brown, of course, thank you as well. meantime, all eyes on milwaukee. the democrats facing off tonight for the first time since bernie sanders beat hillary clinton in that new hampshire primary earlier this week. my next guest says hillary needs to fire hillary. what does that mean? he'll explain that for us. also ahead is a broke