. >> reporter: at that time, charles murray was a 21-year-old history major at harvard. liberal policy wonk, coming of age in heavy times. >> we were really optimistic in the 1960s, because we never tried to use government programs to eradicate poverty. turned out to be really tough. >> reporter: murray would come to understand how tough a few years later. after earning a phd in political science at mit, he went to work for a washington think tank with a government contract to evaluate the effectiveness of the great society's anti-poverty programs. murray's ground breaking research transformed him from a liberal to a libertarian helped transform the nation's welfare policy as well. >> reporter: was there a eureka moment in your research? >> there was. i came across a source which had calculated the poverty rates back to world war ii, and poverty rate had been going down, even faster before the war on poverty. that was the moment i said it is only after the war on poverty was a few years on it slowed. >> it stopped. >> it stopped. >> reporter: his book "losing ground" not

. >> at that time charles murray was a 21-year-old history major at harvard.y wonk coming of age in heavy times. >>> after earning a ph.d., went to work for a washington think tank with a government contract to evaluate the effectiveness of the great society's anti-poverty programs. murray's groundbreaking research transformed him from a liberal to a libertarian and helped transform the nation's welfare policy as well. >> was there a eureka moment during your research? >> there was. i came across a source which had calculated the poverty rate back to world war ii. the poverty rate had been going down even faster before the war on poverty, and that was the moment i said, oh, it's only after the war on poverty was a few wreerz along that we stopped making progress. >> it slowed? >> it stopped. >> his landmark 1984 book "losing ground" not only concluded that the war on poverty failed to get people out of port, but it had devastating consequences for an underclass stuck in a culture of dependency. >> your findings were controversial. >> very much so. their conven

. >> at that time charles murray was a 21-year-old history major at harvard. policy walkoming of age in heavy times. >> we were optimistic in the 1960s because we never tried to use government programs to eradicate poverty. turned out to be really tough. >> turned out how tough years later. after learning a ph.d. in political science he went to work for a washington think tank for a government think tank to evaluate the anti prove vert programs. his ground breaking research transformed him from a liberal to a libertarian and helped transform the nation's welfare policy as well. >> was there a eureka moment during your research? >> there was. i came across a source which calculated the poverty rates back to world war ii. the poverty rate had been going down even faster before the war on poverty. that was the moment i said, oh, it is only after the war on poverty was a few years along that we stopped making progress. >> it slowed. >> it stopped. >> murray's landmark 1984 book "losing ground" not only included the war on poverty failed to help people out of po ve

. >> at that time charles murray was a 21-year-old history major at harvard. policy walkoming of age in heavy times. >> we were optimistic in the 1960s because we never tried to use government programs to eradicate poverty. turned out to be really tough. >> turned out how tough years later. after learning a ph.d. in political science he went to work for a washington think tank for a government think tank to evaluate the anti prove vert programs. his ground breaking research transformed him from a liberal to a libertarian and helped transform the nation's welfare policy as well. >> was there a eureka moment during your research? >> there was. i came across a source which calculated the poverty rates back to world war ii. the poverty rate had been going down even faster before the war on poverty. that was the moment i said, oh, it is only after the war on poverty was a few years along that we stopped making progress. >> it slowed. >> it stopped. >> murray's landmark 1984 book "losing ground" not only included the war on poverty failed to help people out of po ve

lazy. >> that is obviously a simple view of what i'm saying but if you rephrase it and say, that charles murray that the government is systematically under-mining what was a great american treasure, that is accurate. >> murray, 70 years old, finds himself back in a battle of fierce ideas that he believes must be won. his latest book, "coming apart," said the battle is being fought on new terms. what was once the pathologies of the under class is now becoming the mainstream. >> if you go to a working class neighborhood and you get them talking about the guys around town and their attitude toward work. will you get cases where guys are trying hard to get work. the story you hear more commonly is you did not want a job. >> which sounds like someone we met earlier in the hour on. so i asked murray about jason, that blissfully content la jolla, california, food stamp recipient. >> he surfs a lot, he does not have a job. he does not want one. he has no problem taking $200 a month from taxpayers. are you surprised we could find someone willing to tell us that? >> doesn't surprise me a bit. >> jason is

but if you rephrase it slightly, say charles murray said that the government is systematically undermining a civic culture of independence that was a great american treasure. that's pretty accurate. >> so murray, now 70 years old, finds himself back in another fierce battle of ideas. he believes must be won. the latest book, coming apart, says that battle is being fought on new terms. he said what were once the pathologies of the under class are being abouting the mainstream. >> if you go to any working class neighborhood in the united states and get to talking about the guys around town and their attitude towards work, you will get some cases where guys are trying very hard to get work and unable to do it. the story much more chommonly i he doesn't want a job. i asked murray about jason, that blissfully consent la jolla, california food stamp recipient. >> hooey surfs a lot and doesn't have a job and doesn't want one. he has no problem taking $200 a month from taxpayers. are you surprised we could find someone willing to tell us that? >> doesn't surprise me a bit. >> jason is not an anoma

but if you rephrase it slightly, say charles murray said that the government is systematically undermining a civic culture of independence that was a great american treasure. that's pretty accurate. >> so murray, now 70 years old, finds himself back in another fierce battle of ideas. he believes must be won. the latest book, coming apart, says that battle is being fought on new terms. he said what were once the pathologies of the under class are being abouting the mainstream. >> if you go to any working class neighborhood in the united states and get to talking about the guys around town and their attitude towards work, you will get some cases where guys are trying very hard to get work and unable to do it. the story much more chommonly i he doesn't want a job. i asked murray about jason, that blissfully consent la jolla, california food stamp recipient. >> hooey surfs a lot and doesn't have a job and doesn't want one. he has no problem taking $200 a month from taxpayers. are you surprised we could find someone willing to tell us that? >> doesn't surprise me a bit. >> jason is not an anoma

government is making people lazy. >> that is obviously a simple view of what i'm saying but phr charles murrayhat the government is systematically under-mining what was a great american treasure, that is accurate. >> murray, 70 years old, finds himself back in a battle of fierce ideas that he believes must be won. his latest book, "coming apart," said the battle is being fought on new terms. what was once the pathologies of the under class is now becoming the mainstream. >> if you go to a working class neighborhood and you get them talking about the guys around town and their attitude toward work. will you get cases where guys are trying hard to get work. the story you hear more commonly is you did not want a job. >> which sounds like someone we met earlier in the hour on. so i asked murray about jason, that blissfully content la jolla, california, food stamp recipient. >> he surfs a lot, he does not have a job. he does not want one. he has no problem taking $200 a month from taxpayers. are you surprised we could find someone willing to tell us that? >> doesn't surprise me a bit. >> jason is n

but if you rephrase it slightly, say charles murray said that the government is systematically underminingivic culture of independence that was a great american treasure. that's pretty accurate. >> so murray, now 70 years old, finds himself back in another fierce battle of ideas. he believes must be won. the latest book, coming apart, says that battle is being fought on new terms. he said what were once the pathologies of the under class are being abouting the mainstream. >> if you go to any working class neighborhood in the united states and get to talking about the guys around town and their attitude towards work, you will get some cases where guys are trying very hard to get work and unable to do it. the story much more chommonly i he doesn't want a job. i asked murray about jason, that blissfully consent la jolla, california food stamp recipient. >> hooey surfs a lot and doesn't have a job and doesn't want one. he has no problem taking $200 a month from taxpayers. are you surprised we could find someone willing to tell us that? >> doesn't surprise me a bit. >> jason is not an anomaly.

>> let's say, read charles murray's book on the subject. stuart: steve forbes, thanks so much.. now, congressman mike burgess will introduce a bill how doctors get paid for each service under medicare. he wants to keep doctors performing services for medicare patience. the congressman burgess is with us right now. welcome to the program, good to see you. >> you were, and you were practicing doctor so you know what you're talking about and i think you're trying to remedy the situation that emerged in the wall street journal article, an increasing number of doctors are walking away from medicare patients and you want to stop them from walking away by paying them more money. who pays them more money, taxpayers? >> well, the entire formula system in medicare has been wrong for years. and in fact, it prices the services that doctors provide under what it costs them to -- you can't cover your expenses with what medicare reimburses. every year, doctors are living under this sword of damaclese, so-called fix before the end of the year, this bill repeals the formula and provides for a p

yet, charles murray, who wrote a book called " the bell curve," i won't go into that -- he regained himself with me one year ago with another book about two nations. it was about white america good he got in so much trouble writing about black folks he stayed away. it was about the wage and income gap in white america. it has been growing since the late 1950s. same amount of time we have been talking about civil rights. there was ade-industrialization of america. the steel mill where i worked and made enough money in the summertime to pay for college in the wintertime at ohio university, go bobcats, where the tuition was -- i had to go back and check this because i thought my memory was failing me my tuition was $770. that was 1965. to go to ohio university. i set up my journalism career. it is well over 10 times that now. where are the steel mill jobs? they are not there. that is upward mobility. that's what larry is talking about. my father was a janitor, my mother was a cook. through upward mobility in america, i was able to take advantage of opportunity and move up from minimum wage to

something charles murray, the economist of the american institute calls the decline of american industrinesswhen the government is incentivizing that we're seeing the fruits of that right now. >> this is just the federal government because there are state and local agencies as well. the federal government has 126 separate programs aimed at helping low income people. did that breed potential for trouble, even if they have laudable goals, when you have that, there must be -- there could be some overlap, certainly room for people to get involved in fraud, that kind of thing. it sounds pretty duplicative, 126. >> not all go to individual. some are general to the community to try to help with poverty. when you're talking about temporary assistance or needy family, you're talking about children, shannon. i don't think anybody wants to punish children who have poor parents. the idea is give everybody in our country a chance. we've gone through a recession and seen an increase in the food stamps role as a result. i think people want a safety net in our country no matter how much for capitalism they

charles murray has written about it.nstitute has written a great book about this problem. feminists and progressives have encouraged over the last few decades the separation of marriage and child rearing. we are seeing you can have children and have a family without there being a stabilizing marriage to help support that. and now we're seeing that there's very bad effects to all of this for both children and society at large. >> you know, it doesn't seem fair for a single person to say, you know what, the reason that you don't have rings on your finger man and woman is because you don't have money. why is the media pushing this narrative, too? >> unfortunately it seems as though we talk way too much about the cost of marriage rather than the benefits. we forget that marriage is a very important stabilizing force. it's the cornerstones of middle class life, self-sufficientcy, financial planning and the idea that we should reserve that only for the educated or wealthy is terrible. it's creating this tremendous rift between

. >> now, author charles murray discusses his book "coming apart: the state of white america 1968-2010." he spoke a few weeks ago at the annual western conservative summit. hosted by the colorado christian university centennial institute. from denver, this is a little less than a half hour. ♪ ♪ >> thanks very much. i can't tell you how depressing it is to be introduced, to be told preceding the introduction that the preceding speaker not only got a standing ovation, but people who are applauding a television screen in scottsdale, arizona. [laughter] however, there can't be just high points in any set of speeches, you have to have time to rest, and i'm going to give you that over the next 25 minutes. [laughter] i'm also going to say nothing whatsoever about republican versus democratic politics. i figure you need a rest from that too. i'm going to talk instead about a very major problem that faces the country as a whole if we are to sustain the american project as we have historically known it. this is the thesis that i developed in the book called "coming apart," and i'm going to have

with charles murray who's the author of "coming apart: the state of white america 1960-2010."his is from the western conservative summit at colorado christian university's centennial institute. it's about 25 minutes. ♪ ♪ >> thank you very much for your service. i'm a proud navy mom, and i see that's one of the few services that you managed not to find your way to. [laughter] look, as the congressman said, i'm a mother of five, grandmother of five. be you guys want to eat and get up and move around while i'm talking, that is perfectly all right. i am so used to people getting up, not listening to a thing i've got to say. [laughter] so, please, feel free to do that. you know all about me now. i want to know something about you and sort of where your heads are at. could you tell me, how many of you think teach -- deep in your hearts that america's best days are behind us? you don't want it to be that way, but if you look at the arguments, we probably are not going to give a country to our children that's as good as the one we've inherited. ooh. okay. how many of you think that, i

yet, charles murray, who wrote a book called " the bell curve," i won't go into that -- he regained himself with me one year ago with another book about two nations. goods about white america he got in so much trouble writing about black folks he stayed away. it was about the wage and income gap in white america. it has been growing since the late 1950s. same amount of time we have been talking about civil rights. there was a de- industrialization of america. the steel mill where i worked and made enough money in the summertime to pay for college in the wintertime at ohio wheresity, go bobcats, the tuition was -- i had to go back and check this because i thought my memory was failing me -- my tuition was $770. that was 1965. to go to ohio university. i set up my journalism career. over 10 times that now. where are the steel mill jobs? they are not there. that is upward mobility. that's what larry is talking about. my father was a janitor, my mother was a cook. mobility inrd america, i was able to take advantage of opportunity and move up from minimum wage to a much higher income. over 1/3 o