charles murray. so we thought if harvard's people can digest charles murray's coming apart, so should people in the middle of the country could do it. furthermore, only a couple of weeks before murray's talk at indiana, in the same room where he spoke in the beautifully furnished president's hall, "washington post" columnist deon urged our students to try to understand and listen to those whose values they do not share generally. he called especially on his friends on the left to try to develop empathy for cause that is might have motivated people to vote for donald trump on the right. there's too much elitism, he suggested, that divides the country into bubbles. think or thin. and prevents understanding dialogue and debate. it is time to end this elitism and treat the middle america as something other than the flyover country between the two coasts. between new york and l.a. and now follow the juicy details you have been waiting for. the announcements of murray's lectures was met with strong critici

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providing a climate that providing a platform to charles murray is highly irresponsible to our community. in a perfect logic after declaring its commitment to free speech, the open letter asked for the university to this invite giles murray. murray.invite charles i do answer at the request of the chairman. a complaint was launched with the faculty council. that it was inappropriate since he did not allow for debate or question and answers. he did have a question-and-answer eo -- question-and-answer period. , somethingarlatan like an coulter. the indication was that his place was not in an academic setting, respectable one like bloomington. in spite of the fact that murray had earned his degree from m.i.t. and has authored more than 10 books -- more precise, 12. even murray's latest work, coming apart, they claim builds on the same evidence used in the bell curve. other spoke about the damaging decisions to invite to campus hate speech or even inside it -- or even incited hate crimes. -- hiss despicable despicable ideas do not deserve to be debated because they are racist, sexist, demeani

on in some of the colleges now where you have people, to give you an example, there's the guy charles murray who wrote the bell curve along with richard which basically came out with ideas around racist blaming black people specially for some of the ideas you mentioned. he actually was going to be speaking in college recently and there was a protest that prevented him from speaking. personally, i think -- i would like to know your opinion because i actually think that that was a actually a good thing because the problem is hate speech, i think, is something like yelling fire in a crowded theater, some laws against that and in a racist society that creates the conditions that exist to build racism to blame people and as charles murray has done for their own problem for their own predicament is to me danger and potentially harmful and people die from this. you know, it's a tricky free speech thing, but thank you. >> very quickly, i'm happy you mentioned dorothy roberts fatal inventions, that's one of my favorite books and she actually operates as structural standpoint and this is about power,

there is this guy charles murray who wrote the bell curve along with a guy named richard bernstein, came ideas around racist, blaming black people for some of the ideas you mentioned. he actually was going to be speaking in middlebury college recently and then there was a protest that prevented him from speaking. personally i would like to know your opinion. i actually think that that was a, actually a good thing, because the problem is, hate speech i think is is something like, yelling fire in a crowded theater, there are some laws against that. in a racist society that creates conditions that exist, to build racism, to blame people, as charles murray has done for their own problems, for their own predictment, is to me dangerous and potentially harmful and, people die from that. so, it is tricky, free speech thing but, thank you. >> very quickly, i'm happy you mentioned dorothy roberts text, "fatal invention." one of my favorite books. she actually operationalizes race as a political construct. i think it's a very important distinction that this is about power. it is really a power stru

. >> when books are written by these brilliant thinkers like charles murray, what is it that these booksif those ideas are so preposterous, end up on the bestseller list? >> date present their statistics. typically, there statistics are misleading. they measure black people from subjective standards. because, a lot of those suggestions we commonly believe in, it appears that they are presenting truth. it appeared that what they were saying was truthful, because they had the backing of science, god, nature, or logic.>> before i go inside the text stamped from the beginning, how do you respond to those persons who think that all these centuries later, we should not even be wasting time ? it is a subject that we should have long ago stopped talking about.>> well, i think the idea that we are living in a post-racial society is really indicative of every single racist idea that has ever been created. an idea that suggests that racial discrimination is not the cause of the black condition. it is black people themselves and their inferiority. it is not surprising that people are still creating

. >> charles murray wrote about the impact of welfare and in the navies of family disintegration and. if you look at the situation and it is right now, what do you do policy lies for that progress that they've made in the '50s and early '60s?. >> from a government policy perspective that new program needs to come along. with the government assistance programs and then to become a lure and trap for generations in putting that in place regarding work. we have kids trapped in failing schools letting those that we go worked. if we know we have a lot of budding entrepreneurs in harlem cut the red tape and that hamper the growth and. so they can play the role to resist some programs that are out there. to take a more humble approach going forward. >> one more question. but you may recall ronald reagan got in trouble for going beyond the of what you say. some of those black leaders want that situation. and then they're out of bed job. so did they go too far that they had a vested interest? they get their foot in the door for the first time we set aside those programs?. >> if you look get the

. >> >> charles murray, and the impact of family disintegration. and what could we do policy wise. and to resume the kind of progress they made in the 50s and 60s. >> what would the government stop doing? the program needs to come along. and stop doing things that don't work. it used to be safety nets, who spent generation after generation on government dependency. a few kids trapped in failing schools, and they proliferate, stop capping the growth. if we know we have a lot of budding entrepreneurs in brooklyn or harlem. and the growth of black. businesses. and a lot of policies that have been tried and taking a more humble approach going forward. >> >> ronald reagan got in trouble for what you said. they want the situation to remain that, without the anger and resentment they are out of a job. did reagan go too far in suggesting leaders have a vested interest, and secondly or set-aside programs good or bad. the theory behind the ms. people get minorities and get their foot in the door for the first time and they can take it from there. would you keep or do away with set-aside prog

. >> charles murray wrote in the 80s about the impact of welfare on the progress of the poor and later in the 90s about the impact of family disintegration. if you look at the situation as it is right now, if you thought about what could we do policywise so that the flax was in progress that they made in the 50s and early 60s? >> well i think from a policy perspective it's a question of what i would like to see the government stop doing. it's not that a program needs to come along. stop doing the things that we know don't work. we have welfare programs for government assistance programs that used to be safety nets and now they have become traps for governmental dependency. we need to think about the incentives put in place. if we have kids trapped in failing schools let the school models that we know work proliferate and stop capping their growth. .. >> and. >> in terms of the incentive , yes that there is so rigorous to babette -- that they benefit by keeping them angry and racially paranoid that is part of the reason you see obama indulge in a group with black lives matter it was pol

and dare you be charles murray and say, you know, that america -- and say something that no one disagreesith anymore which is that the country is coming apart socially and polarizing horribly because of something you wrote 22 years earlier that no one has read. [laughter] and has no idea what you actually say. that you were assaulted by a mob on a college campus. so it's much worse now than it was then then, i think. i mean, a although it was terrible then in its own way and all the seeds of the degradation, part of it you write about in the follow-up to "making it" which is breaking ranks, a book about your political revolution, is the abdication of intellectual responsibility by this class when the war, violent war, romantic in the capital r sense romantic left sense of the 1960s began to take over. and people that you wanted to be in the fight with you against it simply refused or were too afraid or had lost confidence in the importance of their own approach. right? >> yeah. >> michael? oh, ruth. i'm sorry. ruth and then michael. >> well, just to turn it, my experience with this book h

. >> [inaudible] charles murray wrote in the '80s about the impact of welfare on the progress of the poor, and then later in the '90s about the impact of family disintegration. if you look at the situation as it is right now, have you thought about what could we do policy wise so that the black or poor at least resume the kind of progress they made in the '50s and early '60s? >> well, i think it's from a government policy perspective, it's a question of what i'd like to see the government stop doing. it's not that a new program needs to come along, it's stop doing things that we know don't work. so if we have welfare programs or government assistance programs that used to be safety nets but now they've become lures and traps for blacks who spend generation after generation on government dependency, we need to think about the incentives that have been put in place regarding work. if we have kids trapped in failing schools, let the school mod to els that we know -- models that we know work proliferate. stop capping their growth. if we know that we have a lot of budding entrepreneurs in

this except putting slightly and saying how much they hate the speakers do, putting their own charles murray here at ati. work universities one of most close minded silos go growing up? i grew up in a republican suburb and i went to a democratic university called harvard, that's how they lured in the stronghold for nixon in 1960. nowadays the typical student goes from the 50 percent republican or democratic summer and goes to a 92 percent university. our universities part of the problem rather than the solution? >> there's an empirical question here and the data is impressive but i'm a little at a disadvantage because i spend most of my career at the university of chicago which on two counts is different from the picture you describe. one of which is it's been a national leader in opposing the idea of any kind of politically driven speech code in the administration of the university of chicago has stood for principle, my co-author and just still left the center is, yields to no one i think i think it may be fair to say that your own dealership shows a fair degree of civility and openness to

this is how words equal death, not to charles murray speech. they went to great length to talk about how words actually matter. it doesn't matter when they're using them and actually put people in danger. my question is to "the new york times" the scoop is a scope no matter what, they will do anything to get it yet they find it critical of donald, jr., takes a meeting. could they have gotten this information from russia? >> we don't know that. >> greg: it could be from a foreign source, what if it was from a iranians we don't know. why did they turn this information over first? why did they take this meeting, it seems fishy to me. >> you said there was only one question i think there were six or seven. let's stick with the fact that you're not giving me facts right now because you're saying one question, two questions, -- >> greg: don't avoid the question. >> if this is tied to russia, it has to be investigated. >> dana: we're going to go to juan williams. if >> part of it is the politicized website is a sheet of community, president trump does

charles murray came to princeton and had a respectful speech.students had a debate with rick santorum, he complemented the students and there was little reporting. exaggeration around the incidences that are taking place on college campuses and i find that our students and faculty and university leadership are dedicated to the importance of free speech on the campus, but these are fundamental values and we have to be attentive to making sure that all people with viewpoints are able to speak on our campuses. is a new wants to message. it sounds like you are saying that you are a strong believer in free speech and you are bothered by the attacks on freedom of speech that come from the lyrical left, but you do not think it is the existential problem that the political right has made it out to be. chris: free speech is in good shape on most campuses and we are having robust arguments that we ought to be having. people will point to a protest or two people speaking rudely to one another and say that is a sign of a free speech problem, but that is fre

that would be a broad understanding but they put in that same category charles murray and now, by extension article, your group as well. >> unfortunately like you said, they used to do good work and now their hate level has become a joke. they attack catholics, nuns, veterans, muslims who are fighting muslim extremism. they typically hate everyone who typically disagrees with their left-wing ideology. it's disappointing that abc would undermine their credibility and professionalism by cutting and pasting from splc's web site. dropping that into a headline about us. >> martha: we will see. obviously you want a response in retraction. kerri, thank you very much for being here. >> thank you. >> martha: still had tonight, after years of destruction at the hands of isis, the city of most muscle, iraq, is now under control. this might not be a battle or a a -- but a victory for western civilization. general jack keane standing by with more. >> we want to consolidate and ensure that the victory stays a victory, unlike the last time. . she's outside of the key, she shoots... ...she scores! uh... ye

this is a big trend in the universities to just, what happened to charles murray, evan mcdonald. week. happen to me last mcdonald spoke at the five colleges. another one is, on a. the students of pomona came out with an editorial which said is white -- what white supremacists used to marginalize minority people. free speech inon america, on the first amendment. the first amendment is the first amendment for a reason. it is the most fundamental right that we have. speak, -- not free to speaker mind you cannot defend any of your other rights. it is all over. the left's war on free speech, there are a handful of liberals, actual liberals. i should mention one, a book called "the silencing." think i -- i think that is the subtitle. alan dershowitz would be another. they are few and far between. host: what you keep going back to, i think recently of angela davis speaking at the women's march. david: here is a woman, the political hack of the worst, lowest kind, revered throughout the university system. prize from thein german police state. she abetted the murders of several people in

paternalistic, cognitive elites, leads who think this is the opposite one of the main things of charles murray famous book, the bell curve disappeared under crowd, but the book is about the issue of the problem of cognitive elites lifting themselves from the rest of society. you have the economy dominated. you have education policy, huge focus on higher education. higher education is by definition an anywhere domain. meanwhile, in the u.k. we've had continuing neglect of technical vocation information. in the options for school in britain anyway, all of the public subsidies is pushing people into the university and into the higher education route. in the other part remains relative. we have simply had a huge opening of our economies. the promises that were made of the new democrat, new labor promise of the 80s and 90s with tony blair britain was somewheres were told to roll with globalization and we will be fine. we will turn you into software engineers and retraining. this promise was never fulfilled it's one of absolute issues here. take the freedom of movement in europe. one of the biggest

at charles murray's book. he was talking about this sorting that ross was describing. my god. to thatdn't get that working class life. class doesn't -- could is arguable whether it could support the family life life.mmunity that it did back then. this is reallyf nostalgia.the be able to walk to pete's coffee. >> they want to be able to walk to the stores. what was the streetscape of new york? the most sophisticated cosmopolitan city in the country. this dreadfully monotony of shoe repair stores, hardware stores. it served its local population. there were some antique stores. there were some used books stores. people.ostly local these neighborhoods are very self-contained. we can never go back there. we cannot go back there again. downtown is lovely. it is charming. downtown has boutiques that serve forests. -- tourists. i was him to go to that hardware store. love to go to that hardware store but i spent all my time at home depot. it will have the selection and price. it is an important distinction. if you want to, you cannot return to that small-town life. you cannot return t