lilly endowment, trilateral commission, pew charitable trusts, the norman foundation, the catherine t. macarthur foundation, the charles stewart mott foundation. these are--support the--is it called--is it pronounced saguaro? >> guest: yeah. c-span: what's that mean, by the way? >> guest: saguaro is a cactus out in--out in the west. we use it as a metaphor for social capital. because the saguaro--it's one of these big cactuses with the big arms, you know. saguaro cactus, as it turns out, grow invisibly, almost underground, for the first 20 or 30 years before they shoot up these big stalks, which then turn out to be hosts for many different kinds of communities--for birds and insects and--and people. so we thought that was a kind of a metaphor for social capital--it takes a long time to develop, and then it serves lots of unexpected purposes. c-span: carnegie, the li--the lila--is that the way you pronounce it?--wallace reader's digest foundation. >> guest: yeah, lila. yeah. c-span: why are all of these groups--and, by the way, a lot of our viewers--i don't know what the number is, but some of our viewers, when they hea