so you remember charles ramsey from these situations. charles ramsey, it's good to have you., once again, we're standing side by side, trying to make sense of a situation that makes no sense. there are some different features this time, most notably, what we see with weapons, access to weapons, and then the explosives. is that how you size it up? >> sure. the case has some parallels, obviously to columbine, which happened 19 years ago last month. we understand there might have been a pressure cooker device as well as part-tiipe bomb, which used in 1999. the second part of this was weaponry. we can look at things like universal background checks, raising the age. >> doesn't matter here. >> he was a 17-year-old kid who got access to his father's weapon. two home defense weapons, a shotgun and a .38 revolver. listening to the of witness you were talking to earlier, senator john cornyn said that the barrel was shortened. a standard shotgun barrel is anywhere between 18, 20, 22 inches long. you're not allowed to have one with less than an 18-inch barrel or 2 in6 inches in total le

also joining us cnn law enforcement analyst along with charles ramsey. charles, as we look at this, we know how much -- i'm sorry, we may not have charles with us. jonathan, i'm going to throw this one to you. as we look at -- we're hearing from josh the talk about the planning. so you have these devices versus just deciding one day to pick up a firearm. the fact that those devices didn't detonate may not mean that there was some sort of malfunction, it may mean simply that perhaps this person was not at that point in their planning. >> listen, the fact that we have explosives to begin with introduced into this incident is disconcerting. we don't know the condition of the explosive devices at the time that law enforcement got to them. so they could have been rendered safe by explosives teams, the eod teams that went to look for these. and police may have taken those devices for evidentiary value. again, we don't know and we've yet to ascertain the conditions of those explosives. >> when we talk about the training and we talk so much about the training tha

. >> charles ramsey, let me bring you in here and ask you a question that's actually tough for me to even think about, which is why does it take so long to notify the parents of the children that have been lost? >> well, the parents may not be readily accessible. i mean, people are at work, could be on vacation, could be a variety of things. it's not just parents. you try to notify as many next of kin as possible, siblings, aunts, uncles, whom ever. so sometimes it takes time. that's not unusual in homicide cases where you're not able to reach everyone who needs to be notified right away. >> but for a school where they have a point of contact for every student, i would think it would be easier to reach a parent than for just an average adult. >> well, would you think so but, again, you know, phone numbers can change, other things can come up. i don't know why it's taking so long but it not all that unusual. there could be one or two families out there that they've not been able to yet notify everyone. and then they may have reached parent and the parent say don't put anything out yet

enforcement talking about police community relations featuring the former philadelphia commissioner charles ramseylast month at the conference of mayors. the topic, police community relations. >> whether we are large, small, medium committee does not matter. it is in our collective best interest to build the trust, that legitimacy. think about it, if you saw something on the news, however bad it might be, and the public is watching it from your town, your city, and people looked into said, that is terrible, but our cops would never do anything like that. we have a long way to go before that conversation takes place in a lot of our cities, but why t be athat vehicle -- tha b goal? we will be challenged constantly. i guarantee you will be challenged. so that is why having relationships, building trust, legitimacy, we talk about procedural justice and things like that, but we also have to look at internal procedural justice -- how do we treat our own people? we are very punishment given as police organizations. we have rules and regulations. you do this, you get this much time off. you get fired if y

and charles ramsey touched on it a little bit. i think the answer lies in a couple areas, number one selection of the officer. and number two training of the officer. number 3 clear roles of the school as defined by the community policing model. but the community policing model. and as long as the selection and the training fall under the community policing model, what we have found is that incidents that were likely to occur or were planned to occur within the school, students were getting that information to the school resource officer, who was able to then communicate that more broadly to the rest of the department. because relationships were built where students were able to learn the trust that officer, but that falls in the community policing model where it's problem solving and information flows freely both to the officer and from the officer. because the officer is viewed as part of the faculty and not police department solely. but if it stays within the confines of the community policing model then they can embrace them a