people like charles sumner, people like emma willard, the great champion of higher education or women or elizabeth blackwell, the first woman doctor in america. they were wonderful writers. and they weren't writing writing. they were ready to be published. they were made letters. it was a tie when people believed in writing letters and it was part of life and what you're expected to do. sumners story is so arresting. massachusetts senator. senator charles sumner, one of the most important figures in 18th century america and that he was the most powerful voice for evolution and the united states. he is the one who was nearly beaten to that on the floor of the senate with a heavy walking stick with a southern congressmen who was offended by speech sumner had given. sumner went over -- sumner graduated from harvard, went to harvard law school, practiced law for three years, decided i don't know enough. my education is not sufficient. i went to learn more. am going to go to paris. silly part or thousand dollars. attending lectures and everything. geology classics. you had to learn french

c-span: a thought -- that's charles sumner. i read it earlier at the very beginning.k is -- >> guest: augustus saint-gaudens was one of these people who rode superbly who never went to school. c-span: for we constantly deal with practical problems with boulders, contractors, derricks, stoneman, trucks, rubbish, plasterers, and what not else, all the while trying to sort into the blue. >> guest: yes. sculptures are different and painted the painters were in the city and essential what they have is canvas and the palate, an easel and paint and brushes. sculptors is more like a workshop. they get people to make the mold prevent people who bring in the sacks of blaster. as he says, i love the word rubbish in there, there's a joke around. and you all those practical kind of necessities of the trade to deal with. as is true in everybody's work. all the while trying to sort into the blue, to reach that level, that there it is. that happens in paintings, music, oratory of the gifted, and it happens to the audience when they hear it, when you listen to it. to rise beyond the l