the conviction of charlie kushner of course was a life-defining moment for jared kushner. so extensively. let's remember it was chris christie, then u.s. attorney who became later governor of new jersey and a trfump ally who wa behind that prosecution of jared kushner's father. that's why christi didn't get a job in the administration. jared kushner had largely been absent from the white house in recent days. he'd been in the middle east. but he was spotted there today and travelled with president trump on air force one to mar-a-lago this evening to begin the president's break. so, he was with the president as this news came out. and then of course the other theme is a further rebuke to the russia probe, the special counsel mueller investigation, which the president has deemed a witch hunt and felt like it shadowed unfairly in his mind his administration throughout his time in office. and we're seeing those two pardons tonight, roger stone and paul manafort, two of course, manafort in particular, this was widely held, former campaign chairman had served time, you know, was

charlie kushner, the people that he was giving to that he shouldn't have, were democrats. he was a huge contributor to the democratic party, bill clinton, hillary clinton, especially jim mcgreavey, the former governor of new jersey. and he got into trouble because he gave way over the limits, and he wrote checks under people's names, which is sort of 101 of campaign finance law. you can't write a check for somebody else. that is what jared kushner's father did. and as a felon, he wasn't able to sign real estate loans. that's why jared kushner at age 26 was the person who took out a billion-dollar loan when they bought their marquee skyscraper on 666 fifth avenue in manhattan. i should add that this animosity between jared kushner and chris christie exists today. i mean, it's a sort of -- a fact that i know you know but maybe you forgot at this moment that four years ago, christie had just been fired as director of the transition. and there was so much animosity that all of the briefing books that christie had prepared, all of the vetting and security information he had gat

attorney, describes the crimes committed by charlie kushner. listen. >> i want to talk about jared kushner. you talk about him in the book because, frankly, it comes down -- he's the one who fired you. right? >> that's what steve bannon told me, yes. >> and you believe that? >> sure. >> right. you believe that because there is history between the two of you. >> between me and his father, not between me and him. >> you can understand why he takes it personally. >> yes. >> would you separate your experience if your father had been put in jail, from the prosecutor who put him in jail? >> if my father was guilty. listen, if i thought my father had not done something and that he had been wrongly accused and wrongly convicted, that would be one thing. in this instance, mr. kushner pled guilty. >> legal-campaign contributions. >> tax evasion and witness tampering. significant crimes. >> it was surprising you didn't give yourself more of a defense for prosecuting charles kushner in t in the book. >> i mean, if a guy hires a prostitute to seduce his brot

for the core voters, this is him fighting for the people who fought for him. >> charlie kushners of the world. that is a heck of a holiday gift to deliver to dear old dad when you can get your father-in-law to serve up a pardon. that is a tough one to beat. garrett haake, thank you very much for your time tonight. >> reporter: you bet. >>> i want to now bring in nancy gaertner, harvard law senior lecture you are e and harry litman, a former deputy assistant attorney general, both with deep knowledge of the justice department, justice, law and mersry. harry, starting with you, we have been talking about this. this is a very, very potent part of the presidency by constitutional design, controversial at the time because of its potency. man oh man, do the manafort and stone ones look right up as close as you can get to the edge of crossing something that feels like you should not be able to do. >> man oh man. well, if in fact there was any quid pro quo, you can't do it. even so, chris, this is the man whose constitutionally obligated to take care that the laws be faithfully executed. so how

today we have the pardon of charlie kushner. what's ahead, i believe, will be the pardon of jared kushner and his wife, ivanka trump and other members of the trump family. today we have the pardon of trump cronies. what may very well lie ahead is the pardon of trump himself, a constitutional abhorrent self-pardon. there may very well be serious legal issues. trump is, even with these pardons, raising the spector of a quid pro quo of new crimes. so the chaos and illegality is just accelerating. >> norm, thank you. andrew, give me a quick button. >> yeah. come on, chris. this is -- there has never been anything like this. this guy is actively using the pardon to undermine justice. he's rewarding people who refused to cooperate, refused to provide information, who actively lied to prosecutors and to courts and judges. we have never seen a low like this. buckle in. we may go lower. >> gentlemen, thank you very much. norm eisen, andrew mcgabe, blessings to the families. now, look, i mean what i say. you got to see the gift in this. th

charlie kushner, by the way, was put away by chris christie back when he was u.s.ttorney in new jersey for tax evasion and witness retaliation. manafort was sentenced to 7 1/2 years for his crimes. he's been under home confinement due to the pandemic. tonight, he promptly thanked trump by saying, mr. president, my family and i humbly thank you for the presidential pardon you bestowed upon me. words cannot fully convey how grateful we are. history will record that your presidency accomplished more in four years than any of your modern day predecessors. you truly did make america great again. as for roger stone, his 40-month prison sentence had previously been commuted by trump, who had publicly signaled that clemency was in the cards for both guys. >> i think the whole manafort trial is very sad. one of the reasons i respect paul manafort so much is he went through that trial. you know, they make up stories. people make up stories. >> i believe that he will tell the truth. and if he tells the truth, no problem. >> the question was asked yesterday about pardons with

the case of charlie kushner, obviously broke the law. chris christie, no democrat, no liberal-leaning fellow, said it was one of the more egregious cases that he's seen. we're not talking about the fact that on top of that he blackmailed his brother-in-law by sending a woman seduce him, videotaped it and sent it to his sister. this is the level that is going on with some of these people. whatever you want to say about the mueller report which by the way the first book of it did find that the russians were trying to interfere and their interference was welcomed by people in the trump campaign including paul manafort, roger stone, et cetera, that everyone who did not cooperate with the u.s. government, with the special counsel, got a pardon. those who did cooperate, like michael cohen, and rick gates, did not get a pardon. that is corruption in its purest form and bill barr has said as much, his own attorney general who had to resign because he didn't want to be present for these pardons. think about the timing of that. it was too much for

kushner. joining me now, former republican congressman charlie dent and ron brownstein, senior editor at the atlanticwhat a night, gentlemen, what a night to behold, and i suspect not the last of a series of pardons. ron, first on these pardons, you are say we didn't end up here in one day, that there's a reason we ended up here. tell me what is that reason. >> look, you don't get here in a day, laura and you don't get here on your own. the only way that president trump got to the point of undertaking actions that were so egregious and so flagrantly violate the rule of law and the traditions of the american presidency is that step by step, week by week, month by month, year by year, republicans in congress have enabled and abetted him. not one republican in both pg chambers of congress thought it was worthy of sanction when he openly extorted the government of ukraine. there was no objection when he tried to weaponize the postal service. there is no objection as he tried to tilt the census, interviewing in criminal cases. they have gone step by step with him and now we are in this place where it is s

kushner. joining me now former republican congressman charlie dent and ron brownstein, senior editor at "the atlantic gentlemen, what a night to behold and i expect not the last of a series of pardons. ron, first on these pardons you say we didn't end up here in one day, that there's a reason we ended up here. so, tell me, what is that reason? >> look, you don't get here in a day, laura, and you don't get here on your own. the only way that president trump got to the point of undertaking actions that were so egregious, so flagrantly violate the rule of law and the traditions of the american presidency is that step-by-step, week by week, month by month, year by year, republicans have abetted and defended him as he has moved further out into indefensible activity. when he only extorted the government of ukraine, there was no objection when he tried to weaponize the postal service, intervene in criminal cases. they have gone step-by-step with him, and now we are in this place where this is just simply embarrassing, it is almost pathetic, he is turning the u.s. into some kind of parody of a tin pod dicta

trump pardoning jared kushner's father was simply a way of softening the ground for what may be more familial pardons coming. i guess i have a slightly different view from charlie about whether these pardons can ever be attacked in court. the truth of the matter is there's very little legal precedent. and i understand we all have opinions about how a court might rule if a corrupt pardon was challenged. but the plenary pardon power can contradict other powers in the constitution like the care to faithfully execute the laws of the country. i would hope that when we have a law-abiding, law-enforcing attorney general, and i think we're all certain that we're all about to have a law-abiding attorney general, whoever that may be, i hope there's serious consideration given to challenging corrupt pardons in court so that our opinions are fine, but let's get a judicial ruling on just how far a corrupt president can push the pardon power. >> gentlemen, it's an interesting discussion and one we'll have to keep on having because there are probably more pardons coming. we need to figure out how to handle this in the future. glenn kirstner and charlie savage, thank you. you