charlie louderman jail tape. >> so, have you heard about the shooting in carrollton? h, i heard about it. everybody else heard about it, and do you know who's involved with it? >> yeah. >> who's that? >> billie earl johnson and, uh, mr. john. >> mr. john. so, you know mr. john? >> yeah--i know mr. john. >> reporter: charlie louderman --was one of the few who was not related by blood or marriage to billie earl johnson. >> billie earl johnson. he's one mad son of a bitch. >> reporter: charlie --who started out as a bodyguard for billie earl --says billie and "mr. john" tried to get him to shoot nancy howard. >> this f----- man , he tried to get me to kill that woman. >> did he really? ' cause he -- >> do you want the truth? >> yeah, i want the truth. >> you got that recorder on? yeah. >> i gotta have the truth. >> yeah, you're g------- right that son of a bitch tried to get me to kill that woman. >> reporter: now out of jail, charlie told us that sometimes john transfered money between bank accounts. and sometimes john met charlie and billie -- and handed over packages o

take one from charlie louderman.t some of frank howard's cash had come from the middle east in body bags. it was money that literally reeked of death. >> some of it had hair with blood stuck to it. some of it had burn marks on it. and i said, what in the hell is that awful damn smell? and billie looked at me and said, you know that's how we're getting that money in here, is on dead bodies coming from kuwait in the caskets. >> reporter: the defense called that claim outrageous. >> just crazy things, crazy. $80,000 or $100,000 in cash coming back in the body cavities of dead soldiers from iraq? i mean, this man had crazy things. >> reporter: the defense attorneys not only challenged the credibility of billie earl and his crew, they told the jurors the real reason frank howard was in contact with the east texas crowd boiled down to one word -- blackmail. >> you take a guy who's been a straight arrow all of his life, has a great reputation in his hometown, i'm sure it would bother him if the people at church knew he had