the trail has led us to bridget kelly, to regina, charlie mckenna, the current chief of staff who's up for attorney general nomination. we need to talk to all of those individuals about what they knew and when they knew it. >> what if they take the fifth? >> they may. but we also need to ask for their e-mails, their personal and governmental e-mails. we need to look at those documents. we got to where we are by taking a step-by-step methodical approach. we'll continue that. clearly for the governor to say i knew nothing from when this started in august all the way through september 13th is just not -- till january 9th, rather, is just not believable, especially when you look at the e-mails before bridget kelly's order. on august 5th they were trying to arrange a meeting between david sampson, the chairman of the port authority, and the governor. >> what about those who said the governor has shown leadership, he's come forward, he's been forthright, he's taken action, fired her and that shows leadership. >> it shows leadership after monumental, unforgivable mistakes were made. and so ce

version of it said you have one hour to tell my chief of staff, kevin o'dowd, or my chief counsel, charlie mckennaout an hour later in the press conference, he emotionally leans in and says you've got to tell me, kevin, or charlie, right now. change of story. and his contradiction about whether he would cooperate with investigators. >> of course we'll work cooperatively with the investigations. >> if you were to get a subpoena for whatever reason, what would you do? >> i'm not going to speculate on that. >> joining me now, salon writer and screenwriter amy punt. amy, i think us screenwriters look at these things the same way. i'm very glad you caught those contradictions the same way i did. i want to look at the other items that you highlighted. and you use this book about lie detection as your guide in putting this piece together. you went to the issue of evading questions. and let's look at the example. we'll look at the video example of what you used there. let's look at this. >> so i'm just asking, what do you ask yourself about? they either thought this is what the boss wanted or as a group t

i believe that i have spoken to every one who was mentioned in the emails except for charlie mckenna who is away at a family funeral, and i'm confident they had no prior knowledge nor involvement in this situation. >> reporter: [ inaudible ]? >> yeah, well, that's your characterization, not mine. but there was nobody on my staff who had any knowledge of this issue until after the -- the issue was already done. >> reporter: can i follow up on that? >> in the back, yes? >> reporter: [ inaudible ]? >> it's awful. now i have always seen confli conflicting reports about what the cause of death was, but it doesn't matter. it's awful to hear. >> reporter: [ inaudible ]? >> listen, all i can do is apologize for the conduct of people who work for me. i can't go anything else. i can't reverse time. if i could i would. but all i can do is apologize. david? >> reporter: governor along the lines of doing the job as governor that you said you are focused on regaining the trust of the people of new jersey. a lot of people are upset about this and shocked. the first couple of years you were governor

may very well be charlie mckenna, who is governor chris christie's chief counsel, who is also suspected today. after bill baroni delivered false testimony to the legislature, making up a story about a traffic story, a traffic study, a traffic study that could only have been intended to cover up what they're really doing, quote, charlie says you did great, great in all caps. the investigation is to find out about abuse of government power and efforts to conceal abuse of government power. everyone known to be involved in the shutdown, and now the governor's re-election campaign, as an entity, have been asked to turn over documents on that, as has the governor's office itself. one question is, is the cover-up worse than the crime? does the way that this goes into all these other entities, does it follow the chain of people who knew that the cover-up, the whole traffic study bunk, was nuts and who took some part in cooki ining up that story and applauding it once it's delivered. is that the way that this rises? the other question is, does governor chris christie himself, as part of the offi

i then questioned kevin o'dowd and car -- charlie mckenna rectally since they are the only two who report directly to me and they assured me and they had no information that would change my ability to say that no one on my staff was involved in this matter. that was obviously a lie. the mills lysol yesterday morning when they were broken -- the e-mails that i saw yesterday morning when they were broken proves that is a lie. there is no justification for that behavior. there is no justification for ever lying to a governor or a person in authority in this government. as a result i have terminated the employment immediately this morning. secondly, i have and will continue to, starting with yesterday, to once again now have personal one-on-one discussions myself with the remaining officers -- members of my senior staff to determine if there is any other information that i do not know and need to know in order to take appropriate action. i am not completed with those interviews yet. when i am, if there is additional information that needs to be disclosed i will do so. if there is additional a

i then questioned kevin o'dowd and charlie mckenna directly, since they are the only two who report directly to me. and they assured me that they had no information that would change my ability to be able to say that no one, in response to angie's question, on my staff was involved in this matter. that was obviously a lie. and the e-mails that i saw for the first time yesterday morning, when they were broken in i believe the bergen record story, proved that that was a lie. there's no justification for that behavior. there's no justification for ever lying to a governor or a person in authority in this government. and as a result, i've terminated bridget's employment immediately this morning. secondly, i have and will continue to -- it started yesterday -- to once again now have personal one on one discussions myself with the remaining members of my senior staff to determine if there's any other information that i do not know and need to know in order to take appropriate action. i've not completed with those interviews yet, but when i am, if there is additional information that needs to be di

fort lee, you have one hour to tell either my chief of staff, kevin o'dowd, or my chief council, charlie mckenna. i told them that in an hour, i was going to go out in a press conference, and if no one gave me any information to the contrary, i was going to say that no one on my staff was involved in this matter. over the course of the next hour, kevin and charlie interviewed each member of any senior staff, came back and reported to me that they all reported that there was no information, other than what we already knew, that had been testified to by senator veroni, regarding this incident. i then questioned kevin and charlie directly, since they're the only two that report directly to me, and they assured me that they had no information that would change my ability to say that no one, in response to angie's question, on my staff, was involved in this matter. that was obviously a lie. and the emails that i saw for the first time yesterday morning, when they were broken i believe the record story, proved that was a lie. there's no justification for that behavior. there's no justification for eve

i then questioned kevin o'dowd and charlie mckenna rectally mckennaharlie directly since they are the only two who report directly to me and they assured me and they had no information that would change my ability to say that no one on my staff was involved in this matter. that was obviously a lie. the e-mails that i saw for the first time yesterday morning when they were broken proves that is a lie. there is no justification for that behavior. there is no justification for ever lying to a governor or a person in authority in this government. as a result i have terminated bridget's employment immediately this morning. secondly, i have and will continue to, starting with yesterday, to once again now have personal one-on-one discussions myself with the remaining members of my senior staff to determine if there is any other information that i do not know and need to know in order to take appropriate action. i am not completed with those interviews yet. when i am, if there is additional information that needs to be disclosed i will do so. if there is additional action that needs to be tak

i then questioned kevin o 'dowd and charlie mckenna directly since they are the only two that report directly to me. they assured me that they had no information that would change my ability, to be able to say that no one in response to angie's question, on my staff was involved in this matter. that was obviously a lie. and the emails that i saw for the first time yesterday morning when they were broken, i believe "the bergen record" story, proves that that was a lie. there's no justification for that behavior. there's no justification forever lying to a governor or a person in authority in this government and as a result i have terminated bridget's employment immediately this morning. secondly, i have and will continue to, started yesterday, to once again now have personal one-on-one discussions myself with the remaining members of my senior staff to determine if there is any other information that i do not know and need to know in order to take appropriate action. i'm not completed with those interviews yet but when i am, if there is additional information that needs to be disclose

we don't know if that charlie is charlie mckenna. goes by charlie as far as i understand. general counsel is significant. he is one of the people, charlie that christie says is one of the people that directly reports to him. christie says he only has two people directly reporting to him. mckenna is one of them. he's another person in this. the final thing to think about, what's the next play for david wildstein? what is his next move here? >> david wildstein has to hope there's not a grand jury. it does seem to me so far, right, he doesn't -- he's taking the fifth. he's doing all this kind of stuff. grand jury, if there's that, there's a real problem for him, right? i mean, christie's people have been quite loyal to him so far, right? no one is as they say flipped on him. be interesting to see what happens, again, if you have a point where you have to put your hand -- >> i agree. the grand jury is crucial if it ever gets to that point. we don't know whether it will or not. a point that we're already at is that there's political blood in the water and the press who are shar

among other people, regina, one of the people slated to be the governor's new chief of staff and charlie mckenna. >> that's who sth. >> the governor's chief counsel. the current chief of staff is set to become the attorney general. >> i'm sorry. >> the current chief counsel is set to go to the school's development -- >> there's a lot of chairs. >> a lot of people moving around. the fact is, these are people very close to the governor. they see him every day. it's a campaign year. anything that's going wrong in the state, they are likely to talk to him just so that he's not caught unaware, that a reporter doesn't say, what about the lanes in ft. lee, somebody's accused your staff of illegality. he's going to know about that so he knows to respond. so for him to say he doesn't know -- and then on september 11th he's with wildstein, david sampson, bill baroni and himself at a 9/11 event where they are all talking. they knew that there was a lot of mayhem going on in ft. lee and nobody raised the issue. it was just really hard to accept that it happened that way. >> i understand your skepticism. i f

another one of them is charlie mckenna, i believe, the chief counsel. he's also in this politicker nj story, reported to be the subject of a subpoena. so you're now dealing with the two people that talked to the governor directly. >> yes. and it's always been hard to believe that you would have had a deputy chief of staff in a close-knit circle, who's doing this all on her own. she's not talking to the governor -- she's -- this will be very interesting. >> so here's what i do, if i'm chris christie. right now. i just lawyer up. i'm a life-long lawyer. i was in corporate law before -- u.s. attorney. i know how to fight battles legally. had a pretty good record in terms of getting convictions. although some of those cases were very dodgy. are you prepared for a drawn-out legal process in which every single inch of ground is fought, contested, appealed, and you can't get anywhere? >> we're prepared. that's why we brought in special counsel. that's why we prepared ourselves legally to have the kind of backup that we need. but it's curious that on one hand,

i then questioned kevin odowd and charlie mckenna directly since they are the only two who report directly to me, and they assured me that they had no information that would change my ability, to be able to say that no one on my staff was involved in this matter. that was obviously a lie. and the emails that i saw for the first time yesterday morning broken and then i believe the records story proved that that was a lie. ' no justification for that behavior. no justification for ever lying to a governor or a person in authority in this government. and as a result, i have terminated brigitte's employment immediately this morning. secondly, i have and will continue to, started yesterday, to once again now have personal one-on-one discussions myself with the remaining members of my senior staff to determine if there is any other information that i do not know and need to know in order to take appropriate action. i'm not completed with those interviews yet. but when i am, if there is additional information that needs to be disclosed, i will do. so if there are additional actions that need to b

then there's charlie mckenna, the governor's counsel. and david samson, who is the chairman of the port authority of new york and new jersey, but more importantly in this case, in addition to that, is very, very close confidant of chris christie and has been for a long time. >> these subpoenas, this is legislative. how much of this is politics? these people can just plead the fifth. >> that's right. but they can collect a lot of documents, so that's significant. this story only exists because of some e-mails that were disclosed. so there are likely more e-mails that are relevant to this controversy. but the point about the legislative committee is that they don't have the power to give immunity. to david wildstein, who took the fifth, ms. kelly, who will certainly take the fifth, the only person who can give them immunity is paul fishman, the u.s. attorney, who is also investigating, but it's not clear whether he plans to give them immunity. so we may never hear from these people. >> anderson, when you have 20 subpoenas out there and fiv

i then questioned kevin dowd and charlie mckenna directly since they are the only two who report directly to me. and they assured me that they had no information that would change my ability to be able to say that no one in response to inches question, on my staff was involved in this matter your that was obviously a lie. and e-mails that i saw for the first time yesterday morning when they were broken and i believe the bergen record story, of proof that that was a lie. there's no justification for that behavior. there's no justification for ever laying to the governor or a person in authority in this government. and as a result, i terminated reaches employment immediately -- bridges employment immediately this morning. second, i have and will continue to, start yesterday, to once again now have personal one on one discussions myself with the remaining members of my senior staff to determine if there's any other information that i do not know and need to know in order to take appropriate action. i've not completed with those entities yet, but when i am, if there is additional information

he failed completely to find the wrong doers, charlie mckenna, the same thing. the chief council assigned to christie to investigate it. and according to christie got fooled and couldn't find what he was supposed to look for. bridget kelly, already gone. there's going to be just a wipeout of this whole staff before this is over. >> and think about it, the one completely implausible scenario is the deputy chief of staff telling no one superior to her cooked up an entire scheme to shut down part of this bridge going over to the new york side. the idea that she is the top person in this operation is so absurd that it just invites more questions. and those what are superior to her, it brings o'dowd. it brings it so close to chris christie that i wouldn't be surprised if he didn't testify. >> absolutely. and he's probably already engaged private defense council in this. thank you both for joining me tonight. coming up, another of chris christie's many scandals. and later, america's most experienced and most careful election analyst charlie cook, the venerable charlie

bridget kelly, he did say something to kevin o'dowd, chief of staff, listened to something from charlie mckennaunsel, he's counting on what, executive privilege down the line? what's his bet here? he basically circled the wagons and said i only have two report, those two guys and she's not to be believed. that's where he's circling the wagons now. >> i think he has to simply hope the people around him, the people involved in this stay with the party line. and say that he didn't know anything about it. we did it on our own. but chris, the problem with that is let's assume governor christie didn't know anything about it. then why for god's name would an activist governor, and he was an activist governor just like i was, why would he let the lanes be closed for five days, jeopardizing public safety, when they told him it was a traffic study? if they said that to me, i would have said, take that traffic study and stick it where the sun don't shine. let's open those lanes right now. i want those lanes opened in 30 minutes. >> well, that's exactly the kind of governor, mayor you were. let me go back

lee, you have one hour to tell either my chief of staff kevin o'dowd or my chief council charlie mckenna. >> that was him speaking in his carefully prepared opening statement in which he very specifically says that he did not ask his staff to tell him if they had any information. he gave them one big hour to tell his chief of staff or his chief council. >> over the course of the next hour, kevin and charlie interviewed each member of my senior staff, came back and reported to me that they all reported that there was no information other than what we already knew that had been testified to by senator baron i regarding this incident. >> got that? here's version two. >> four weeks ago and when i had them all in that office and said if any of you have this information about this that i don't know, you need to tell me, kevin or charlie now. see that? christie forgot his script there. now there's three people you have to tell. this is the time, this bit about you have one hour to tell kevin or charlie became you need to tell me, kevin or charlie now. not in one hour. only one of those versions

subpoenas were issued in bridgegate, including christie's chief of staff kevin o'doud, chief counsel charlie mckennaesman -- and fired aide. joining me now the former mayor across the bridge, rudy giuliani. how are you? >> i'm good. nice to talk to you again. >> it's been months since you've been on the show. >> yes. >> welcome back. happy new year. let's talk chris christie. >> first let me begin by saying i'm a great admirer of john mccain. [ laughter ] >> i think we're all great admires of john mccain. the great thing is he's a great admirer from everybody apart from me. that probably is about the right way it should be. let's talk about chris christie. i've been a great admirer of chris christie for a long time. he's clearly facing i would argue his biggest political challenge so far. how is he doing in this scandal, do you think, and what are the big pitfalls going ahead? >> i mean, there's only one big pitfall going ahead. that is is he telling the truth? i believe that he is. i think the facts indicate that he is. but that's the pitfall, right? the reality is, this was a stupid mistake. it wa

the governor's top team consists of his chief of staff kevin o'dowd, and general counsel, charlie mckenna two people who questioned bridget kelly before she was fired. and now christie's press secretary, michael drewniak, may face questions as well. over at port authority, two executives have already been implicated in the bridge incident, bill baroni and david wildstein. christie's reelection campaign is also involved. his campaign manager bill stepien corresponded with david wildstein via e-mail over the lane closings. so far four of those people have resigned, been fire order punished politically. and the investigations are just getting started. joining me now is new jersey assemblyman gordon johnson and star ledger reporter sal rizzo live from the state capitol. thank you both for being here. >> thank you, reverend sharpton for allowing us to be here today. >> assemblyman, let me go to you first. did bridget kelly order these lane closings all on her own? >> i find it hard to believe that ms. kelly, working in the shadow of chris christie, in his office, in his inner circle would init

question ] >> i believe that i've spoken to everyone who was mentioned in the e-mails except for charlie mckenna who is away at a family funeral. i'm confident based upon my conversations with them that they had no prior knowledge nor involvement in this situation. yeah, well, that's your characterization, not mine. but there is nobody on my staff who had any knowledge of this issue until after the issue was already done. in the back, yes? [ inaudible question ] >> it's awful. i've also seen conflicting reports of cause of death or whatever, but it doesn't matter. it's awful to hear. listen, all i can do is apologize for the conduct of the people who worked for me. i can't do anything else. i can't reverse time. if i could, believe me, i would. but i'm just going to apologize. i think that's all you can do. and there's really nothing else you can do. david. >> governor, along the lines of doing the job as governor have you said that you're focused on regaining the trust of the people of new jersey. a lot of people are upset about this and shocked. the first couple years you were governor you had

seen the name of the governor's chief press spokesperson, michael juneak, his chief counsell, charlie mckenna. we clearly know at least in terms of cleaning up after this event took place, lots of people in his administration, in his front office, were involved in this. and we need to ask the questions about who else was involved, what did they know, and how did this start. >> for people who are not familiar with the scandal, and obviously governor christie, one of the reasons we're even doing this right now, is because he's potentially going to run for president in 2016, traffic may not seem like that big a deal to people given the kind of political scandals that we see all over the country, certainly new jersey is not a place for the faint of heart. why is this important? >> well, it's not about the traffic. the traffic was the consequence. but it really is about ayn abuse of power. it's about an administration that does not take no for an answer, an administration that feels very comfortable in exacting political retribution. and we've seen here two very high-placed officials in the christ

are -- >> i believe that i've spoken to everyone who was mentioned in the e-mails except for charlie mckenna, who is away at the family funeral. and i am confident based upon my conversations with them, that they had no prior knowledge nor involvement in this situation. >> that's your characterization, not mine, but there was nobody on my staff who had any knowledge of this issue until after the issue was already done. in the back, yes. [ indiscernible ] >> it's also, i've seen conflicting reports about the cause of death. it's awful to hear. [ indiscernible ] >> all i can do is apologize for the conduct of people who worked for me. i can't reverse time. if i could, believe me, i would. i'm going to apologize. that's all can do. there's nothing you can do. david? >> governor, along the lines of doing the job as governor that you have said you're focused on regaining the trust of the people of new jersey, a lot of people are upset about this and shocked. the first couple of years you were governor, you did a lot of town hall meetings and spoke to people. any thought about possibly trying to d

believe -- i believe that i've spoken to every one who was mentioned in the e-mails except for charlie mckenna who is away at a family funeral. and i am confident based on my conversations with them that they had no prior knowledge nor involvement in this situation. there was nobody on my staff who had any knowledge of this issue until after the issue was already done. in the back, yes? [ inaudible question ] >> it's awful. i've also seen conflicting reports of what the cause of death was, but it doesn't matter. it's awful to hear. again, listen, all i can do is apologize for the conduct of people who worked for me. i can't do anything else. i can't reverse time. if i could, believe me, i would. but i'm just going to apologize. i think that's all you can do. there's really nothing else you can do. david? >> governor, along the lines of doing the job as governor that you have said that you're focused on, regaining the trust of the people of new jersey, a lot of people are upset about this and shocked. the first couple of years you were governor you did a lot of town hall meetings, traveled all

kevin o'dowdoned and charlie mckenna directly, since they are the only two who report directly to me they had no information that would change my ability to be able to say that no one, in response to angie's question, on my staff was involved on this matter. that was obviously alive. lie.- a and the e-mails that i saw for the first time yesterday morning in ithey were broken believe the bergen record story, prove that was a lie. there is no justification for that behavior. there is no justification for ever lying to a governor or a person in authority in this government. and as a result, i have terminated bridget's employment immediately this morning. secondly, i have, and will continue to starting yesterday, to once again have personal, myselfone discussions with the remaining members of my senior staff to determine if there are -- is any other information that i do not know and need to know in order to take appropriate action. i am not complete with those -- completed with those interviews yet, but when i am if there is additional information that needs to be disclosed, i will do s

>> i believe that i have spoken to every one who was mentioned in the e-mails except charlie mckenna who is away at a family funeral and i am confident based on my conversations with them that they had no prior knowledge or examples of this situation. if that is your characterization, not mine, there is nobody on my staff who had any knowledge of this issue until after the issue was already done. follow-up in the back. >> it is awful. i have seen conflicting reports what the cause of death was but it doesn't matter. it is awful to here. again, listen. all i can do is apologize for the conduct of people who worked for me. i can't do anything else. i can't reverse time. if i could, believe me, i would but i can only apologize. that is all i can do and there's nothing else you can do. >> on the lines of doing the job as governor that you focused on in new jersey, a lot of people are upset about this. the first couple years you were governor you traveled all over the state but any thought of doing something like that again? >> clearly we will do is town halls in the second term. we suspe

>> i believe that i have spoken to everyone who is mentioned in the e-mails except for charlie mckenna who was away at a family funeral. i'm confident that they had no prior knowledge or involvement n the situation. >> [inaudible] . >> that's your characterization, not mine. but there is nobody on my staff who had any knowledge of this issue until after the issue was already done. >> [inaudible] >> awful. now i've also seen conflicting reports about what the cause of death was but it doesn't matter. it's awful to hear. >> [inaudible] >> again, listen, all i can do is apologize for the conduct of people who worked for me. i can't do anything else. i can't reverse time. if i could, believe me i would. but i'm going to apologize. i think that's all you can do and there is nothing else you can do. >> along the lines of doing the job as governor you are focused on regaining the trust of the people of new jersey. a lot of people are upset about this and shocked. the first couple of years you were governor you went to town hall meetings and spoke to people. any thought of trying to do somethi

>> i believe that i have spoken to everyone who is mentioned in the e-mails except for charlie mckenna who was away at a family funeral. >> they had no involvement in the situation. your characterization not mine. there is nobody on my staff with any knowledge of this issue. in the back. [inaudible] >> it is awful. i have seen conflicting reports about what the cause of death was. it does not matter. is awful to hear. all i can do is apologize for the conduct of people who worked for me. i cannot reverse time. if i could i would i'm just going to apologize. i believe that is all you can do. lines,rnor, along the you have said you are focused on regaining the people in new jersey. the first couple of years as governor, you traveled all over the state. any thought of possibly trying to do something like that again? suspended town halls during the campaign because of our concern that folks may raise of assue of in the midst campaign blurring the line between what would be a town hall of that and a campaign event. we made the determination we own hallt do tal meetings. i had no plans to do

kevin o'dowdoned and car -- charlie mckenna rectally since they are the only two who report directly to me they hadassured me and no information that would change one onity to say that no my staff was involved in this matter. .hat was obviously a lie the mills lysol yesterday --ning when they were broken the e-mails that i saw yesterday morning when they were broken proves that is a lie. there is no justification for that behavior. there is no justification for or alying to a governor person in authority in this government. as a result i have terminated the employment immediately this morning. , i have and will continue to, starting with yesterday, to once again now have personal one-on-one discussions myself with the remaining officers -- members of my senior staff to determine if there is any other information that i do not know and need to know in order to take appropriate action. i am not completed with those interviews yet. am, if there is additional information that needs to be disclosed i will do so. if there is additional action that needs to be taken with my senior staff, i

in ft.lee, you have one hour to tell either my chief of staff, kevin were or my chief council charlie mckenna. >> but did he know anything himself in did christie interrogate him at all? he's the nominee fb the next attorney general. u under a cloud like this should christie's chief of staff be placed in a place of power? now democrats are saying wait a minute, the state senator judiciary committee was supposed to start the confirmation hearings next tuesday. now they've been postponed. that was the full wheel of key players in this. at least it was until the latest e-mails for dumped yesterday and pouring over them reveals two additional names here. one is david samson, he's somewhat of a grandfather figure. he's in his 70s. he's known and respected by a couple of generations. actually his respect has gone across party lines in the past and he was christie's choice to serve as the chairman of the port authority. what we're learning from the new e-mails is he aggressively pushed back against a withering critique of the lane closures at the port authority as they were playing out. the other ne

i then questioned kevin o'dowd and charlie mckenna directly since they are the only two who report directlyuld change my ability to be able to say that no one, in response to angie's question, on my staff was involved in this matter. that was obviously a looi. and the e-mails that i saw for the first time yesterday morning when they were broken -- in i believe the bergen story, proved that that was a lie. there's no justification for that behavior. there is no justification for ever lying to a governor or a person in authority in this government. and as a result, i've terminated bridget's employment immediately this morning. second secondly, i have and will continue to, started yesterday, to once again now have personal one-on-one discussions myself with the remaining members of my senior staff to determine if there's any other information that i do not know and need to know in order to take appropriate action. i'm not completed with those interviews yet, but when i am, if there is additional information that needs to be disclosed, i will do so. if there's additional actions that need to be