charlie sykes with the weekly standard and msnbc contributor. and eugene robinson, columnist at "the washington post," also an msnbc contributor. kristen, this story is this new or is this something you've been enterprising for several weeks, like calling the president an idiot or making fun of his lack of knowledge. that a fresh development or something you've only now been able to report? >> well, it's something we've been working on for several weeks, chris. but i can tell you we've spoken to a number of current and former administration officials who say that he has used that term over a period of time, going back to charlottesville. you remember the big controversy surrounding the president's comments in charlottesville. and then most recently as you just talked about, when they were discussing daca, trying to get a deal done on immigration. and of course those talks fell apart. privately john kelly using the term "idiot" to describe the president. publicly some of those frustrations bubbled up into public view. remember, john kelly went on fox news, talked ab

. >> eugene robinson, pulitzer prize-winning columnist for "the washington post" and msnbc political analyst. charlie long-time conservative radio host, author, and msnbc contributor, and a man like myself without a country. charlie sykes, i'm going to resist the tempt taking to say swamp, swampy, swampier, swampiest. get in on this scott pruitt scandal. >> well, you know -- i won't resist the temptation. because the swamp keeps getting swampier. you know, this is a president who's surrounds himself with grifters so there's a pattern here. there's no question that this is the kind of behavior that we've seen so common within this administration. but i suspect pruitt might survive because, number one, what he's doing so is central to the trump agenda. the president sees him as effective. he's popular with the conservative base. he's getting air cover from conservative media. in what alternative universe do we think that donald trump is going to hold members of his cabinet to a strict standard of ethical probity? i've often thought if it wasn't for the russia investigation, we would be talking about th