we all go to the movies, charlton heston, the disney movie, oh, we're free, we're free! and that's the movie version. i mentioned that when our founders -- i think it was john adams, benjamin franklin and thomas jefferson, wanted to put moses on the great ceiling. >> charlie: i know that from your column. >> it wasn't because he was a liberator, it's because he took a people off in the wilderness and imposed law on them, and, of course, that's what they were doing with the constitution. we've had liberation around that, but writing the constitution was the act of genius. so this is a perpetual failure of us. >> charlie: the capacity to -- to impose just authority. and francis has devoted a lot of his career to this problem. so we don't know how -- well, it's hard to. we don't put enough emphasis on imposing law and order on places. and two quick examples. i was in the soviet union as it was collapsing. we sent over economists because we thought, if we just get the right privatization reform, then we'll get the invisible hand working and they'll get order. and, in fact, t