supreme --sas cheever objected and he was overruled. said -- and said, hey, you cannot use my words against me. but he kansas supreme court unanimously said the cheever was right. the government of kansas is wrong. he will -- cheever wasn't trying to put on a mental state defense like insanity or something like that. he was simply putting on the defense that he lacked premeditated intent because of the methamphetamine and you couldn't use his words to the psychiatrist against them. the kansas solicitor general and it was granted. so the question in the case really is were -- is what are the meets and bounds of the something termination clause and what are the rules about rape -- about waivers? justice scalia wrote an opinion saying, hey, although this stuff about waiver and self- incrimination rights is pretty much made up. it is all for policy reasons. he says maybe this policy reasons are good, but they are policy reasons nonetheless. and the structure of that argument is the same one that has been playing out in all of his opinions a

cheever, i'm not closing my eyes. i'm getting to see this beautiful country, and every day is precious. and i think it's really important that, to look at this group of people. and they make the case it's not me. they make the case for abolishing the death penalty in this country because they were there. they walked the walk, and they've been able to walk off death row and be productive, law-abiding citizens. >> he's and again, the journey of hope was -- >> guest: they go into a state every year. virginia has the second highest rate of executions, and they just go around the communities and churches and schools, anybody that wants to hear the murder victims' families' side, don't kill in my name, don't kill in my daughter's name, don't kill in my family's name. i'm against the death penalty in all circumstances. >> host: you begin your book with a story about your boss telling you that when you went to the execution, you should just shut your eyes. >> guest: uh-huh. >> host: what did you think about that? >> guest: we