cheseboro. so mr. grubman, floor is yours. and i think the idea would be to try to limit this to 20 to 30 minutes. we'll see where the discussion takes us. and go from there. >> would your honor, would it be acceptable for your honor if me and my co-counsel, mr. aurora, there's kind of a natural split, i'd like to talk about the kind of groups of facts that will go to both of our motions, both the motion to sever counts and the motion to sever from miss powell. i believe the court indicated you'd want to hear arguments on both. and then mr. aurora will talk more specifically about the statutory factors if that's okay with your honor. and it won't take more -- we won't take up more time than any one of us would have. >> okay. have at it. >> thank you, your honor. your honor, i want to start off by saying we recognize this is a rico prosecution. we recognize that. and we do recognize that part of rico is, you know, providing prosecutors, at least the state would argue this, and there is some case

this argument that cheseboro and powell didn't have anything to do with each other. they were both trying to rob the bank at the same time. one was working on the vault and one was working on the atm. they were trying to rob the same bank full of votes. >> what do you make of district attorney fani willis. we saw the information was being leaked online when it came to the indictment. this is something in georgia, it is part of their transparency laws, that it is made public. she is trying to keep it secret for that reason. >> well, look, it's not that their identities necessarily would be kept secret. it's just that their images couldn't be basically, when you're in the courtroom, you're not panning to the jury and showing folks who they are. and i think that is important because as important as tr transparency is, i think it is really significant that people see what is really going on and not having it filtered through some kind of social media or podcast host. at the same time, we have to understand, there are real people here and those jurors will be effectively

as part of this plan, cheseboro sent an e-mail to mike roman, trump's national campaign director, thee that giuliani wants to keep this quiet until after all the voting is done, according to the indictment. cheseboro's attorneys said he was asked by the trump campaign to provide advice and was not privy to the private communications of other individuals that are cited in the indictment. >> there was legal structure to this. there was constitutional structure to this. there was logistics. there was secrecy. there's no doubt in my mind that this started in the oval office. and worked its way outward. >>> coming up -- inside the plot to seize voting data. >> really a who's who of election deniers. >> all caught on tape. >> they spend hours inside this restricted room in the elections restricted room in the elections office.o! that's what i'm talkin' about! (josh allen) is this your plan to watch the game today? (hero fan) uh, yea. i have to watch my neighbors' nfl sunday ticket. (josh allen) it's not your best plan. but you know what is? myplan from verizon. switch now and they'll give y

ken cheseboro is another one. >> reporter: but prosecutors argue even if they had limited roles, they're charged with taking part in a larger conspiracy. >> anytime a person enters into a conspiracy, they are liable for all of the acts of all their co-conspirators. >> reporter: and tonight, the judge siding with prosecutors, ruling that powell and cheseboro should stand trial together on october 23rd. but he still hasn't decided whether the former president and the others will stand trial with them or at a later date. >> it just seems a bit unrealistic to think we can handle all 19 in 40-something days. >> reporter: the judge will hold another hearing next week to decide whether prosecutors get their wish to try all 19 defendants together. former president trump was asked today, david, if he would testify in georgia or any of the other three criminal trials he faces. he said he would, though, we know, david, his lawyers may have a different view. david? >> david: aaron katersky reporting on the case again tonight. thank you, aaron. >>> this evening, a new legal obstacle for former presid

cheseboro has already filed, too, and that makes no sense.he grand jury has spoken, the meter starts again. you don't really get to penetrate. the charges were made and what matters now is what will be in court. they can call them if they want and it will be up to the grand jurors but no way the court orders them to speak. and i want to underscore one point about what mary said. everything i agree with, but we're seeing now what we were wondering all the way through. would she bring rico? what are the upsides? down sides? we'll have a four-month trial on cheseboro and powell day after day, week after week, that doesn't have much to do with them. if we have the piecemeal trials, the same thing would happen repeatedly. ponderous, judicially inefficient, give as you dress rehearsal and preview to the other defendants. much to be avoided. the challenge comes because the basic charge says, the evidence is the same for anyone. the sprawling conspiracy applies to all. that wouldn't be happening if there were separate charges, or even a standard kind

i do think cheseboro will get his speedy trial.er with cheseboro. it's an open question as to how much time judge mcafee will give the other defendants. cheseboro and powell set an atmospheric precedent, not a legal precedent, and their arguments are now kind of antagonistic to all the other defendants who will argue, "geez, i can't possibly be ready to go to trial in october." the judge, i think, can rightly observe, well, other defendants are ready, willing and able to go in october, so why can't you? >> one of those 19 co-defendants, one of donald trump's 18 co-defendants in this georgia case may have, well, confessed a little bit to the crimes he is accused of while giving an interview to fox news. former trump lawyer, john eastman, he of the infamous eastman memo, appeared to admit to attempting to stop the certification of the 2020 election. this was during an exchange with fox host laura ingraham. >> on january 6th, what did you want to happen, and how was that historically grounded? in the history of our country, how would

cheseboro or ms. powell saying, look, you're going make this harder for me to prove my innocence as well as make me sit through their long proceedings. and the judge, i think, rightly saying, yeah, but that's actually not a harm to you in the sense of how we look at and balance the law here. but at the same time saying, look, it actually really does matter, because we all saw what happened to two black women in term os their lives because lies were told about them, and we have heard from them directly about the trauma to their lives. it is retraumatizing and it does matter. whether and how it impacts real people who have been victimized. i also think what's particularly interesting to me is a very real assessment of the differences in strategy between the district attorney in fulton county and jack smith's team. one went more surgical and one went broad. there are upsides and downsides to both. but in the hearing today we heard some of the downsides, which is there are real challenges to going fast an

cheseboro or powell to achieve a fair trial for either defendant in this case. >> reporter: superiorudge scott mcafee, in court wednesday giving the glimpse of how he plans to handle the case in georgia, all in front of cameras allowed in the courtroom. ruling wednesday that defendants kenneth cheseboro and sidney powell, who both filed for a speedy trial, cannot be separated and will stand trial in weeks. >> we're disappointed. we filed a motion and it was denied. but we respect the court's ruling. >> reporter: now the issue before the court is whether it's realistic that all 19 defendants, including former president donald trump, be tried together. >> to say that all 19 defendants should be tried together, including ones that don't want to avail themselves of the speedy trial demand, is really just nonsensical. >> reporter: district attorney fani willis said from the beginning she wants to do just that. >> do i intend to try the 19 defendants in this indictment together? yes. >> reporter: but the judge expressing skepticism in court wednesday about that plan, and whether they can p

i do think cheseboro will get his speedy trial. sidney powell, who has also made a speedy trial demand, may get batched together with cheseboro. it's an open question as to how much time judgecafee will give the other defendants. cheseboro and powell set an atmospheric precedent, not a legal precedent, and their arguments are now kind of antagonistic to all the other defendants who will argue, "geez, i can't possibly be ready to go to trial in october." the judge, i think, can rightly observe, well, other defendants are ready, willing and able to go in october, so why can't you? >> one of those 19 co-defendants, one of donald trump's 18 co-defendants in this georgia case may have, well, confessed a little bit to the crimes he is accused of while giving an interview to fox news. former trump lawyer, john eastman, he of the infamous eastman memo, appeared to admit to attempting to stop the certification of the 2020 election. this was during an exchange with fox host laura ingraham. >> on january 6th, what did you want to happen, and

out, he also said that the way georgia's racketeering law works, these two defendants, powell and cheseboro, they continue get to separate themselves just because they want to. that's not how the law works. >> the judge ruled those two defendants will be tried together october 23rd, denying the motion to sever his case from powell's. what is behind that decision? >> reporter: the judge said the way the georgia law works, all the defendants who are accused of being part of the racketeering, a part of the conspiracy, they have to be tried together, because that's the way the law is designed. and almost the way he structured his ruling there, it gives a lot of incentive for some of the other defendants to make their own motions. you saw that happening today. you saw mark meadows asking the judge to freeze this case while he tries to figure out what happens with his case. and then, of course, a couple of other defendants also made their own motions, jake, to sever their cases, to separate themselves. again, the idea being, people are trying to figure out whether they want to go on trial perhaps

we have ken cheseboro and sidney powell who have both asked for a speedy trial. they don't want to be tried together, they don't want to be tried alongside their other co-defendants including former president donald trump. so this is the first crack at okay, do we split these people up into different groups or is there a reason that we would try to prompt everyone to move ahead at this quicker trial date? i think that's less likely. but it will give us an idea of how the judge wants to manage this case. it will also give us an indication from the district attorney's office, their perspective, how long it would actually take if it comes to trying these 19 defendants together versus splitting these people up into subgroups, wolf. >> do we expect any serious rulings to emerge from this hearing today? >> i would be somewhat surprised if we see the judge rule from the bench in this matter. but again, this is the first time we're going to see him. we're going to see him in front of the cameras sort of taking a management role, an ownership role over this case. so again

that's ken cheseboro and sidney powell in october. trump and other rico defendants get more time, because the judge ordered a severance, and this new ruling says, quote, severance is an absolute necessity in this case. they note it's so wide there isn't even a local courtroom adequately large enough to hold all defendants and their teams. now, what does this rico trial ruling mean for the remaining defendants? we don't know. the judge basically says stay tuned, noting that divisions of these 17 defendants may well be required, meaning further divisions, but, quote, that is a decision for another day. to paraphrase the singer collie buds, tomorrow's another day, so i just want you to be prepared because judgment a come. kind of applicable if you ask me. now, beyond that particular rule there were some other key moments in the courtroom. a clash where a rico defendant's lawyer claims prosecutors were outright lying as they debated this issue about talking to the grand jurors. >> there is no authority that allows what they're asking the

certainly, those who are heading to trial — ms powell and mr cheseboro, who heading to trial on octoberapproach trial, so that may put the pressure on them to make a similar decision like that of mr hall. and what about perhaps within the advisors and the team around the former president himself, donald trump? perhaps — they have the benefit of seeing this trial, this first trial against the lawyers go first, so they will have opportunity to see the evidence presented by the state, evaluate it and make a judgement call on how they should go forward. but, frankly, i think the former president is unlikely to resolve any of these cases short of trial. he appears to be very bent on persevering until the end in these matters. sarah krissoff, thank you very much for your insights. officials in the us state of nevada have charged a former gang leader in the murder of tupac shakur. the rap icon was gunned down in a drive—by shooting in las vegas in 1996. barbara plett usher has the details. tupac shakur is still one of the best selling and most influential rappers of all time. he took off after

that's when ken cheseboro is going to be going to trial, october of 2023. and he's making it clear he doesn't want any part of these speedy trial guidelines. they don't want to go to trial in october 2023. and now it's going to be up to this state court judge once we get all these pleas in for these 19 co-defendants to stied how he wants to organize all of these folks. >> a lot to organize. so many moving parts there, sara murray. we appreciate you walking us through it. jim? or rather brianna. >>> now to a cnn exclusive. the special counsel probe into 2020 election interference has expanded in scope, even though former president trump has already been charged and his trial date is set. cnn has learned investigators are now looking into post-election fund-raising and voting system breaches and how the former may have paid for the latter. sources say prosecutors are asking about former trump lawyer sidney powell, who by the way is a co-defendant in the georgia election case. cnn's paula reid, who broke this story for us. paula, it sounds like the special cou

particularly when you get to the trial of sidney powell and cheseboro, i think that will give the other defendants to start to see how this plays. and when they see how it plays and if it comes out as we expect it will, i think they're going to start saying this isn't a good gamble for me. >> yeah. >> you'll likely -- >> really interesting. yeah. and as i remind viewers, sdny is known for finishing cases, not just starting them. so it's interesting to get your insights. and i will say, david, i believe we covered chess, dominos, and at one point poker. so we've run the gap ut here of classic games. >> well, you know, ari, it is interesting because when you get into stuff that is a bit of a board game. trying to figure out -- and you need to think about what's the next move. and you need to be thoughtful about it. and there's a lot of factors that go into it both from the prosecution side and from the defense side. >> yeah. and this was a win for the d.a., the prosecution side today. we'll see what comes from it. david kelley, thank you very much. i want to tell folks what's coming up be

but we will see the judge there, scott mcafee, hold a hearing for sidney powell and kenneth cheseboro essentially on their arguments about severing the case and whatnot. but what's notable is it's going to be televised. tomorrow we will see what is going to happen. do you think people being able to actually watch that will affect how they view this? >> i think it might, kaitlan. so much of this has been behind closed doors or in a way you that can't see in real time and it's being relayed tlohrough usn the media. and i think for the public to be able to see this is important. i am very pro cameras in courtrooms in general. i think journalists generally are. but i do think this is an important moment in terms of people understanding what's taking place and forming their own opinions. it's going to be a lot harder for defendants in these cases to say this is going through a filter and this is somehow tainted in terms of public understanding when it's televised. >> and these are people who trump is not paying their legal fees. like in the other cases that we see. what is your sense of th

and that would be sidney powell and kenneth cheseboro.a prejudice. i don't anticipate that happening. but to your point, i think it's important to this, there are built-in delays that exist no matter what. if you consider the number of witnesses, the issues. the number of defense attorneys is going to be an issue in this case, as well. >> katie phang, thank you so much. we will be watching the katie phang show weekend mornings here on msnbc. so just to listen to her begin to describe what is playing out down there, severed cases, jury selection is taking eight months for one case in particular. >> that's right. >> how is this going to play out, how long will this take? >> i think it's fair to assume this will one take a while. that's the consequence of bringing this case against 19 indictments, 41 counts, all these defense lawyers, filing all these motions. there's no way that all 19 defendants can be tried at the same time. what would that look like in a courtroom? how do you pick a jury eight months in this other racketeering case by th

the trial for an 18th co-defendant, kenneth cheseboro, is scheduled for late october.e trump is charged for allegedly mishandling classified documents, lawyers are set to appear for a hearing to discuss what evidence prosecutors plan to present. that case is scheduled to go to trial next may. lawyers are also expected to argue an issue related to the federal election case against trump in d.c. court this week. the exact details of the issue are under seal, but we know they're related to the former president's inflammatory comments about those involved in the case. let's bring in former u.s. attorney and msnbc legal analyst joyce vance. joyce, clearly, it'll be a busy week on all those legal fronts. are you looking at the -- which of the cases you looking at particularly to get some kind of sense of where we might be in terms of timing with the election year coming up next? >> yeah, it's a great question, katty. i'm trying to look at all of them simultaneously, which is getting more and more difficult as the details progress. but i think in many ways, the total of the f

but sidney powell and kenneth cheseboro will be tried together. will not get the separate trials they asked for. the fate of the remaining 17 defendants isn't entirely clear, but it sounded like the judge was considering very seriously trying them together in one group. that's in large part because of this forceful argument that prosecutors make, that no matter how many separate trials are held in the georgia matter, in each one, prosecutors have to prove not just the limited number of overt acts that an individual defendant was involved in, but the entire rico conspiracy that they've charged. prosecutors say that'll take some four months. it'll involve 150 witnesses. so they took it straight to the judge and just said, "the issue, your honor, is how many times do you want to have to retry this same case?" sounds to me the judge will do it in two, at most, three tranches. >> joyce, let's talk about what the judge said about the actual process of the trial. judge mcafee expressing some skepticism that these defendants could be tried together and in