we would like to extend our thanks to cheshire police for their extensive investigation and the workl. we'd also like to thank them for the comprehensive support that they have provided to all the families involved. since lucy letby worked at our hospital, we have made significant changes to our services. and i want to provide reassurance to every patient that may access our services that they can have confidence in the care that they will receive. finally, and most importantly, our thoughts are with all the families and loved ones at this very difficult time stop thank you. i have to ask, why did hospital managers try to stop lucy letby from being investigated? you heard there are some questions being directed at dr nigel scawn, he has moved away from the camera now, thatis has moved away from the camera now, that is the current situation there at the countess of chester hospital. we have heard of since those verdicts were delivered from various people who worked there at the time, but he was saying that lessons had been learned, he talked about operating procedures being changed as

i'm from cheshire police. can we come in? n chester early in the morning injuly 2018. they are investigating unexplained deaths of premature babies at the hospital where she worked. later an officer leads her to a car to be taken first police interview. she is asked if she knows why she has been arrested. lucy letby had done special training to look after vulnerable babies at the countess of chester's neonatal unit. a young woman qualified to help keep alive tiny babies at the start of their lives. a young women who sentjokey messages to colleagues about getting the prosecco in for her house—warming party. a young woman who murdered children she was supposed to care for. when one of the doctors at chester first heard that nurse led by�*s name was being linked the deaths, he said no, it cannot be lucy, not nice lucy. another doctor told us she was one of the few nurses in the region who he would trust with his own children. but her trial heard that she was the constant malevolent presence when babies were killed or attacked. on

any further details will be shared by cheshire police in due course. from the liverpool women's nhs foundation trust does make it clear how long the story goes back for. well, potentially. this is something thatis well, potentially. this is something that is being looked at notjust now but has already been looked at during the process of that investigation. the 22 charges put two lucy letby only spanned a period of one year of her nursing career. they were all murders or attempted murders that occurred between... that does not represent lucy letby�*s into her nursing career. it raises questions of course about what she was doing prior to that one year period, during periods of training or placement. we know that cheshire constabulary has been speaking more widely, we know they talked to many people who had worked with her, both in her current and previousjobs. the evidence gathering on operation hummingbird, the investigation into lucy letby�*s nursing career has been significant. at the height of that operation there were 70 police and civilian staff

some new material released by cheshire police.y had carried out with lucy letby, really going over all of these incidents, talking to her about what had happened, trying to gather evidence to put the prosecution case together, and they have released a very small excerpt which i�*m going to show you now have one of those police interviews, just a small 20 or 30 seconds from the hours of interviews they carried out overall. that was lucy letby being interviewed by cheshire police, talking about and acknowledging the rise in input mortality on that neonatal unit at the countess of just a hospital where she was working, and the concerns she was saying that she had talked about that colleagues, nursing staff, were aware of, and that was one of the things that really started this investigation into lucy letby and into her conduct. i want to talk a little more about the trial process, and about the verdict that we have received today. my colleague dan 0�*donoghue has been reporting at court every day of this trial, and it is worth taking

these are new pictures from offices' body cameras that cheshire police have shared with the media atial. they have also talked about the interview process. of course, as we were saying, this has been a nine—month trial with thousands of pages of evidence, and around about 30 hours of interviews that were carried out between police detectives and lucy letby, and the police have also released this small clip, a very small part of one of those interviews. as we were saying, just a very small excerpt of one of the 30 hours or so of interviews that were carried out with lucy letby, but i think a crucial moment to see and to hear just there, because that was when she was being asked about problems in the hospital, the mortality rate, and as we have been sang, one of the things that first raised concerns was the increased mortality rate at the countess of chester hospital, which until lucy letby began working there in the neonatal unit, has been essentially an average number of child deaths in a unit like that, where you are dealing with the most premature babies, a certain number sadly do

spoken to detective superintendent paul hughes was the chief investigating officer on the case for cheshire policemany hours interviewing lucy letby. he explained what he made of what police found. lucy letby is clearly the person who keeps things. she kept, obviously medical records. she kept handover sheets. she kept electronic devices and photographs. she kept diaries. very detailed diaries and notes and pages of notes, which surprised me because lucy would have been aware that we were going to come and speak to her at some point. so it was surprising that when we did go and knock on her door and say, arrest her, we effectively invited her in with us, but in that first arrest to conduct a search and to see if there's any evidence that could take us in support of what we've seen or in support of her. and then to obtain evidence by questioning. because she is the one that could effectively, from our perspective in investigation, she's the one that could take it further than anyone else because she'd been there more than anyone else. so we were very keen to understand what she was going to say. bu

she told our correspondent, judith moritz, how the team at cheshire police first responded to the allegationsat that time was almost of disbelief that this could have occurred from a policing perspective. we often start off with a crime and then we investigate from that point. in this case, we started off way before that, and so actually what we started with was the birth of babies and we investigated from that point. and so during that period of time, it's really hard to believe that anybody would be harming tiny babies. and that was the general feeling at that point. and it wasn't until we got further on in the investigation, where we'd established that a crime had occurred, that really the size of this investigation and what we were about to embark on really hit home for people. when you first started investigating, how evidentially complex did it appear to be? the size and scale of this investigation is huge. ultimately, we've got a trial where we're presenting 17 murder and attempted murder cases all at once. and so right back at the beginning of the investigation, it was really clear th

my name is...with the cheshire police. do you mind if i step in for two seconds? yes. thank you.ehind the door of this ordinary suburban house, britain's most prolific baby killer was finally arrested three years after her murder spree began. just take a seat there for me, lucy. i'll move that seat forward a bit. i've just had knee surgery. 0h, right, 0k. she worked here, on the neonatal unit at the countess of chester hospital. her role — to care for the most premature and vulnerable infants, but that couldn't have been further from her mind. the crying, i've never heard anything like it since. it was screaming. it was screaming, and i was like, "what's the matter with them?" legally, we can't identify the families in this case, but the stories are distressing. these are the parents of twin boys born prematurely in 2015. their mum was taking milk to them when she heard one of her sons crying loudly. he had blood round his mouth. and lucy was there, but faffing about and not really doing anything. lucy said, "don't worry, the registrar was coming." and then she told me to go back

the trial in the last few hours there have been some new pictures that have been released by cheshire police. they talked about the thousands, tens of thousands, of pages of evidence that were put together. at one point they said there were 70 police and civilian workers working on this as part of operation hummingbird, and they said they filmed around a0 hours of interviews with lucy letby, and released a small portion. just a brief clip there of lucy letby, one of many hours of police interviews. but talking there about the fact that the rise in infant mortality had been noted by her contemporaries who she was talking about on the nursing staff. joining me now is my colleague dan o�*donoghue. you have been here throughout this trial listening to the evidence in person. you sort lucy letby in the interview room speaking very quietly. what kind of picture was painted of her by the prosecution in this case? bi; painted of her by the prosecution in this case? �* , painted of her by the prosecution in this case? j , . ., this case? by the prosecution, the icture this case? by the prosecution, t

from cheshire police. is it ok to step- in for a few seconds? yes. yeah? thank you.eat in there for me, lucy. i'll move that seat forward a bit. i'vejust had knee surgery, so... 0h, right, 0k. we woke up at six o'clock . in the morning to our phone, and it was the family liaison - telling us they'd arrested somebody on suspicion of murder — a health care worker — l and he came, and he had a conversation and - he said, lucy letby. the absolute shock. i'd almost, in my own mind, - been like, "oh it's someone we don't know and it's someone _ in the background who's done this awful thing," and never in a million years did i think it would be - someone that we, we feltj we had a connection with. the shock of that. the shock of that was just unreal — unreal. lucy letby is clearly the person who, who keeps things. she kept obviously medical records, she kept handovers sheets, she kept electronic devices and photographs. so, she kept diaries, very detailed diaries and notes, which surprised me. because lucy letby would have been aware that we were going to come and speak to

a short while ago, detective chief inspector nicola evans of cheshire police gave her reaction to theas been a long and emotional journey for all of the families involved in this case. i speak on behalf of the entire prosecution team when i say that all of their babies will forever be in our hearts. i would like to thank all of the families in this case for their exceptional resilience and strength throughout this entire investigation. their composure and their dignity during this trial has been truly overwhelming. the investigation into the circumstances surrounding this case started in may 2017. since that time, hundreds of witnesses have been spoken to by a team of dedicated detectives. many of those witnesses have returned to court on numerous occasions to give evidence. without their honesty and their support, the families would not have received the justice that they have received today. i cannot begin to imagine how the families in this case feel today. i just hope that today's verdicts bring all of them some peace of mind for the future and that we have answered some of the qu

detective chief inspector nicola evans from cheshire police, the deputy senior investigating officer the families as it tell you that many were back in court in court number seven here in manchester crown court today to hear those products, to hear the sentence, they were here as well for the products on friday to hear the sentence that was handed down to lucy letby, some of the jurors also back in court again. lucy letby herself was not there but ijust want again. lucy letby herself was not there but i just want to again. lucy letby herself was not there but ijust want to really bring you a picture of what the inside of good number seven was like this morning, danny o'donoghue my colleague is here. we spoke on friday about the conclusion of this trial because you have been here throughout. just try and describe for me because we had cameras on the judge, something that is a new so we saw his sentencing remarks but you could see everything else that was going on there as well. it could see everything else that was going on there as well.— going on there as well. it was an incredibly

three weeks after being told about the baby deaths, cheshire police launched an investigation in may— operation hummingbird. it's really hard to believe that anybody would be harming tiny babies, and that was the general feeling at that point, and it wasn't until we got further on in the investigation, where we'd established that a crime had occurred, that really, the size of this investigation and what we were about to embark on really kind of hit home for people. one case convinced the police there was a killer in the hospital. it involved the family with twins, whose son died back in august 2015. 2a hours later, his twin brother also became very unwell. so, one of the nurses had come and knocked on our doorand said, you know, he's not, he's not well, he's not well at all, his heart rate is really, really high. what's your first thought? it's happening again. thought it was happening again and, i said to my husband, please, not again, we... we can't do this again. this can't be happening. it's almost bang—on 24 hours since, since our other son had died. thisjust can't be happening.

you cheshire police >> you praise cheshire police for what they've done so far, but now whether but oneme they're going to need some outside bearing in mind the outside help bearing in mind the scale they've in scale of what they've got in front of them. scale of what they've got in absolutely, because cheshire constabulary is a very small force. >> you know, it's surrounded by manchester merseyside police manchester and merseyside police and they'll have of course, they've got they've got senior detectives involved in this case and they'll every day and they'll have every day they'll there'll and they'll have every day the burglaries there'll and they'll have every day the burglaries , there'll and they'll have every day the burglaries , robberies,�*re'll and they'll have every day theburglaries , robberies, rapes be burglaries, robberies, rapes have be dealt with. and have to be dealt with. and i think only right that other think it's only right that other forces will in and assist. forces will come in and assist. and procedures for and there are procedures for that happen under mutua

detective superintendent paul hughes police hughes of cheshire police speaking there.hs of some 4000 babies, babies that were in the hospitals that killer, lucy letby worked at mike. still, much more might . mike. still, much more might. neville is still with us, former detective chief inspector for the met. still much more work for detectives to do. >> absolutely. and painstaking work as well. many of those babies have been buried and other bodies don't exist anymore. so that's all they'll have to go through is different notes . and speaking to medical notes. and speaking to medical professionals who perhaps retired and they'll have to find them and so this is a lot of work, but it's good to see that cheshire police are doing that because that will bring reassurance because there have been many, many other parents whose children died in hospitals in the north—west thinking was lost to that baby. who was that nurse who i never spoke to who was on the night duty when my little baby died . and so lots of little baby died. and so lots of parents will be concerned about th

we would like to extend our thanks to cheshire police street to where we are expecting a press conferenceow from s3 police, this concerns is another distressing story where a ten—year—old girl was found dead in the glistening. {lin ten-year-old girl was found dead in the glistening-— the glistening. on behalf of surrey police, i the glistening. on behalf of surrey police. i want _ the glistening. on behalf of surrey police, i want to _ the glistening. on behalf of surrey police, i want to express - the glistening. on behalf of surrey police, i want to express my - police, i want to express my heartfelt condolences around this tragic death. our thoughts are with her mother at this difficult time and we fully appreciate the impact of this devastating impact with half of this devastating impact with half of the local community. our investigation remains ongoing to pace the ten—year—old girl we can now identify as sarah. she was in woking are drawn to 50 a.m. on thursday the 10th of august following a 999 call which is made by a man identifying himself as her father. this was made from pakist

my name is...with the cheshire police. do you mind if i step in for two seconds? yes. thank you.d the door of this ordinary suburban house, britain's most prolific baby killer was finally arrested three years after her murder spree began. just take a seat there for me, lucy. i'll move that seat forward a bit. i've just had knee surgery. 0h, right, 0k. she worked here, on the neonatal unit at the countess of chester hospital. her role — to care for the most premature and vulnerable infants, but that couldn't have been further from her mind. the crying, i've never heard anything like it since. it was screaming. it was screaming, and i was like, "what's the matter with them?" legally, we can't identify the families in this case, but the stories are distressing. these are the parents of twin boys born prematurely in 2015. their mum was taking milk to them when she heard one of her sons crying loudly. he had blood round his mouth. and lucy was there, but faffing about and not really doing anything. lucy said, "don't worry, the registrar was coming." and then she told me to go back to

my name is...with the cheshire police. do you mind if i step in for two seconds? yes. - thank you.door of this ordinary suburban house, britain's most prolific baby killer was finally arrested, three years after her murder spree began. just take a seat in. there for me, lucy. i'll move that seat forward a bit. i've just had knee surgery. 0h, right, 0k. she worked here, on the neonatal unit at the countess of chester hospital. her role — to care for the most premature and vulnerable infants, but that couldn't have been further from her mind. the crying, i've never heard anything like it since. it was screaming. it was screaming, and i was like, "what's the matter with them?" legally, we can't identify the families in this case, but their stories are distressing. these are the parents of twin boys born prematurely in 2015. their mum was taking milk to them when she heard one of her sons crying loudly. he had blood round his mouth. and lucy was there, but faffing about and not really...not doing anything. lucy said, don't worry, the registrar was coming. and then she told me to go bac

seemed that nothing was done and it seemed that nothing was done and it wasn't until may 2017 that cheshire policeir investigation and it wasn't in ten —— until the following year, three deaths after those —— three years after those first deaths, that she was arrested. imilli after those first deaths, that she was arrested.— was arrested. will there be any focus on the — was arrested. will there be any focus on the whistle-blowers . was arrested. will there be any| focus on the whistle-blowers as was arrested. will there be any - focus on the whistle-blowers as part focus on the whistle—blowers as part of the inquiry? we focus on the whistle-blowers as part of the inquiry?— of the inquiry? we know that the inuui is of the inquiry? we know that the inquiry is going _ of the inquiry? we know that the inquiry is going to _ of the inquiry? we know that the inquiry is going to be _ of the inquiry? we know that the inquiry is going to be looking - of the inquiry? we know that the | inquiry is going to be looking into exactly what happened here. we can only imagine what was said at the time and concerns

cheshire police, who did this investigation, operation hummingbird, they created more than 32,000 pages to in court. it is understandable that that emotion is understandable that that emotion is really being seen and heard in the courts at the moment. i want to take you back to the mother of baby e. she was specifically referring to the fact that lucy letby has not appeared in court today and the disrespect that she described that that she was the families. she said we have attended court day in and day out, yet she decides she has had enough and stays on herself, just one final act of wickedness from a coward. i would like to thank lucy for taking the stand and showing the court the real lucy when the mask slips. that is the mother of baby e. the father of baby g is now reading at their witness impact statement. saying baby g still need substantial care. lucy letby tried to murder all of these babies, she was successful in seven cases, but also convicted of six counts of attempted murder. these are children who are often still living with life changing consequences. the father of baby

my name's muted i from cheshire police. can we step in two seconds? oh, yes.his is the moment when the net closed in. yep, not a problem. in tears, lucy letby is brought out of her house under arrest and ta ken away. it seemed unbelievable — a neonatal nurse, a protector of the most vulnerable members of society. lucy letby had worked at the countess of chester children's hospital since 2012. in early 2015, she qualified to work in the neonatal high dependency and intensive care units. onjune 8 that year, she committed her first murder. for the next 12 months, the attacks continued. injune 2016, two babies died in two days. 0n the third day, another baby collapsed. letby was taken off clinical duties. two years later, letby was arrested for the first time. police found medical records under her bed and hand—scrawled notes. "i am a horrible, evil person," one says. "i am evil. i did this," says another. "i don't deserve to live. i killed them on purpose because i'm not good enough to care for them. i am a horrible, evil person." a confession — or, as letby clai

cheshire police. can i step in two seconds? yes. yeah? thank you.ildered by her arrest, but what she did and why she killed, she has never explained to the families of her many victims. over 12 months, the nurse killed seven vulnerable babies and attempted to murder six others. the scale of her crimes is such that the health secretary says the inquiry into what happened will now have greater powers. we will have a statutory inquiry into the letby murders, into the events at chester. that will be a judge—led inquiry, as the prime minister has confirmed, and that reflects the wishes of the families, which i discussed with them. those who worked alongside lucy letby at the countess of chester nhs trust will now be compelled to give evidence to answer the families' many questions. the judge who will lead the inquiry hasn't yet been named. among the issues that will need to be addressed are why she was able to kill for at least a year, what systems were in place to stop her, and why didn't they work, and how the nhs handled the concerns that doctors were

remember, this trial only covered a 12 month period of her nursing career, but we have been told the cheshire policehe was in the care of, that she was supposed to be looking after to see if there any further future crimes that lucy letby would need to be charged with most of this is a story that will continue, that will continue to run, and it is worth saying as well... there are some enormously distressing details that may have on earth, perhaps triggering some reactions if you have been through something similar, particularly when you've been through davie loss, hearing details like this can be really difficult. if you have a look on the bbc news app for the website... you will find there a whole collection of organisations and groups, people who can give some support if you need some resources, something to read, some of talk to a ball of those things are really handily collected together for you. if you go online, going on the bbc news website or the app and look for the bbc action line. that is all for now, then, from here at manchester crown court. let me hand you back to london. rajini has t

cheshire police have announced today that they will now be reviewing the care of thousands of babieso hospitals where letby had worked. tonight we'll ask why bosses at the countess of chester hospital failed to investigate the suspicious deaths of so many babies, despite consultants repeatedly trying to blow the whistle about the numbers dying on letby�*s watch. the hospital didn't answer that or any other questions today. the answer may come via an inquiry which has been announced by england's health secretary. here's kate. did you have any concerns that there was a _ did you have any concerns that there was a rise _ did you have any concerns that there was a rise in— did you have any concerns that there was a rise in the mortality rate? yes _ yes. seven babies murdered in a neonatal unit, a further six the subject of murder attempts. the verdicts today make lucy letby the most prolific child killer in modern british history. the nurse had been trusted to care for the largely premature and vulnerable infants at the countess of chester hospital. she sought to deceive her colleagues a

we would like to extend our thanks to cheshire police for their extensive investigation and the workd to all the families involved. since lucy letby worked at our hospital, we have made significant changes to our services. and i want to provide reassurance to every patient that may access our services that they can have confidence in the care that they will receive. finally, and most importantly, our thoughts are with all the families and loved ones at this very difficult time. thank you. that was dr nigel scawn, the current medical director at the countess of chester hospital. let's also hear from dr stephen brearey, who used to work in the neonatal unit, he led the team of seven consultants in that unit, one of the people who raised concerns that he said were not acted upon, and he has been speaking tojudith moritz. if we go back to the summer of 2015, when did you first become concerned? a review of the care of all three babies was done, and there was nothing in common that we could pin these three deaths on. but the staff analysis did identify that lucy letby was on shift for tho

and cheshire police are continuing their investigation to examine whether there are other babies whomost prolific baby killer. we will have heard of britain's most prolific baby killer.— prolific baby killer. thank you very much. prolific baby killer. thank you very much- judith _ prolific baby killer. thank you very much. judith moritz _ prolific baby killer. thank you very much. judith moritz who _ prolific baby killer. thank you very much. judith moritz who has - prolific baby killer. thank you very much. judith moritz who has been| much. judith moritz who has been following this case throughout. and if you�*ve been affected by this story — or need advice or support — there�*s advice available on bbc�*s action line pages. manchester united and the striker mason greenwood have agreed it would be best for him to leave the club to continue his career. it follows an internal investigation at old trafford into claims against him of attempted rape and coercive control. criminal charges against him had already been dropped. today the club said he had not committed any offences. greenwood

my name is...with the cheshire police. do you mind if i step in for two seconds? yes. thank you.r spree began. just take a seat - there in for me, lucy. i'll move that seat forward a bit. i've just had knee surgery. 0h, right, 0k. she worked here, on the neonatal unit at the countess of chester hospital. her role — to care for the most premature and vulnerable infants, but that couldn't have been further from her mind. the crying, i've never heard anything like it since. it was screaming. it was screaming, and i was like, "what's the matter with them?" legally, we can't identify the families in this case, but the stories are distressing. these are the parents of twin boys born prematurely in 2015. their mum was taking milk to them when she heard one of her sons crying loudly. he had blood round his mouth. and lucy was there, but faffing about and not really doing anything. lucy said, "don't worry, the registrar was coming." and then she told me to go back to the ward. the baby's mum left him in this intensive care area and went to call her husband. they thought their son was in s

2016, but it does not cover the entirety of her nursing career and we have already been told by cheshire policel look back at unexplained baby deaths that happened when she was on shift. there is a lot of important work still to be done. and i spoke a little earlier to steve brian mp, the chair of the health and social care committee for the house of commons. he began by paying tribute to the families who have had to endure such an ordeal over these last months and years. this whole thing is tragic, first and for most, it is a tragedy for the families whose children are either severely damaged or will not grow to be the children they are today. it is a tragedy for everyone concerned, it is a waste of life. i said yesterday on the bbc and i repeat it today, i think the ramifications of this for society and for the health system will be very, very long reaching. just my otherfinal initial very, very long reaching. just my other final initial reaction. i think many people in the country will share. think many people in the country willshare. i think many people in the country will share. i think i

in particular this investigation operation by cheshire police hummingbird, it has widened and will lookiven the severity of the offences, the police decided - career. given the severity of the offences, the police decided to l career. given the severity of the - offences, the police decided to look at the whole footprint of her time as a nurse. she did placements at the countess of chester hospital at liverpool women's hospital and the trust there put out a statement describing how they are dealing with families at the moment. the police are reviewing other cases at the countess of chester where lucy letby came into contact with other children. this is a case that will rumble on for years to come. thank ou. m rumble on for years to come. thank you- my colleague _ rumble on for years to come. thank you. my colleague who _ rumble on for years to come. thank you. my colleague who has - rumble on for years to come. thank you. my colleague who has been . rumble on for years to come. thank you. my colleague who has been in | you. my colleague who has been in court throughout. this trial is be

the cheshire police have confirmed they are investigating the entire period letby was working at theures of this and more of the failures of the bosses themselves. but it doesit of the bosses themselves. but it does it does make people concerned about how the nhs functions , how whistleblowers functions, how whistleblowers are dealt or not dealt are dealt with or not dealt with, and how this type of thing can happen. as you say, it is not the first time that someone in the health care field has abused position in this abused their position in this way. very indeed, way. thank you very much indeed, catherine political catherine force. our political correspondent at gb news. correspondent here at gb news. so joining me now is the former police sergeant, harry tanguy. thank you very much indeed for joining me , harry. you're just joining me, harry. you're just listening what catherine had listening to what catherine had to say there about the response. so question is about how so many question is about how this was allowed to happen within the nhs and why nhs bosses did not take these c

my name's muted from cheshire police. can we step in two seconds? oh, yes. the moment when the net closed in. yep, not a problem. in tears, lucy letby is brought out of her house under arrest and ta ken away. it seemed unbelievable — a neonatal nurse, a protector of the most vulnerable members of society. lucy letby had worked at the countess of chester children's hospital since 2012. in early 2015, she qualified to work in the neonatal high dependency and intensive care units. onjune 8 that year, she committed her first murder. for the next 12 months, the attacks continued. injune 2016, two babies died in two days. 0n the third day, another baby collapsed. letby was taken off clinical duties. two years later, letby was arrested for the first time. police found medical records under her bed and hand—scrawled notes. "i am a horrible, evil person," one says. "i am evil. "i did this," says another. a confession — or, as letby claimed — the tormented thoughts of someone accused of heinous crimes. the trial was told letby had used hard—to—detect methods to carry

and just like cheshire police did in this one, secure convictions. >> peter, thanks ever so much foroming in this morning. we've very much appreciate your expertise and also for going through those reports from 1994, where clearly what happened then has clearly happened again. thank you . thank you. >> and also i'll add to fill in 2015, a set of guidelines were drawn up by the nhs, which was making it easier to whistle blow come forward, we will listen to you. that didn't happen. they made the people who did whistleblowers write a letter of apology to us saying that they shouldn't judged her shouldn't have judged her so quickly. now quickly. but look now to look through today's top stories. we're delighted to be by we're delighted to be joined by celebrity chef broadcaster celebrity chef and broadcaster kevin labour kevin woodford and former labour advisor matthew lazar. so chilling story, this one about lucy letby. i mean, it's horrendous. >> you know , any form of murder >> you know, any form of murder is horrendous . but, you know, is horrendous. but, you know, there's something v

cumbria as well , it was only fact that well, it was only the fact that police were looking at a spike in baby deaths in that area in cheshiree able to identify by lucy letby. joining me now is the former met police officer and author graham watson. graham thank you very much. it is very, very good work by the police in order to get a case and get a conviction , case and get a conviction, especially when dealing with somebody who doesn't admit that guilt is unfortunately dealing with a very vulnerable demographic of people, i.e. ill babies. somebody who's so good at covering their tracks . at covering their tracks. >> yeah, you've highlighted the key facts there. >> i mean, the police found this because of a spike in child this they start the causes they start looking at the causes . is it indeed and as police . is it indeed and as a police officer with medical evidence, . is it indeed and as a police officeryou're nedical evidence, . is it indeed and as a police officeryou're not cal evidence, . is it indeed and as a police officeryou're not actuallyence, which you're not actually trained in, have rely trained in, so you ha

and i think it is credit to cheshire police for the result that has been achieved. know, achieved. but, you know, reminding ourselves of the torment the trauma, the torment and the trauma, the families have gone through the last 9 to 10 months of this trial been on. trial has been going on. >> there are so many >> yeah, there are so many aspects this, trying to aspects to this, just trying to digest it. i suddenly thought of the jury how damaged are they going feel by what they've going to feel by what they've had to sit through, let alone the professionals, the police the professionals, medics ce the professionals, the police the professionals, medics and officers, the other medics and also the fact that it undermines also the fact that it undermines trust, doesn't it ? every every trust, doesn't it? every every young parent at the moment don't have to be young, but every parent at the moment who has to entrust their their child to a nurse in hospital is going to worry awfully at the moment. this has got so many aspects to this case, and yet we hear that lucy letby can opt not to

cheshire, where they brought one back and they halved crime in that town by 48. wow. it was an extraordinary move . and it shows extraordinary move. and it shows that the policeen they are doing their job, can have a very serious effect on crime. but i do think an awful lot of the problem comes from the fact that police are being asked to do things that are not actually really under their. that's i think that's true. >> but a lot of people are furious that the conservative government under theresa may did decide, or at least when she was home secretary, did decide to reduce numbers to save money. and i don't think i'm the only one who genuinely feels less safe . you know, when you go to safe. you know, when you go to the ballot box and they say, do you feel better than you did 13 years ago? and people say, no, okay, i'm not going to vote conservative, perhaps. but also, do safer than you did do you feel safer than you did 13 because it does 13 years ago? because it does feel and maybe this is just feel like and maybe this is just in our big cities, but does in our big cities, but it does feel there is a it's just feel like there is a it's just not as safe as