cross trace exchanges but sandra has crossed the line joining us is steve tang director of the china institute at so us the school of oriental and african studies in london steve this small island affair seems like a small matter for an outsider who might not follow the ins and outs of taiwan china relations why is this important it is important because it is a new it parked. in the park the chinese government respected that it must rule and cumin and are territories under taiwan's control and therefore they will not go and direct descend from the from those islands now under siege in pain a policy has change which is that all these are now defined simply us chinese territory and therefore there's no reason why the chinese government should not simply allowed chinese versions and others to extract whatever they want to extract from chinese solvent territory is a very powerful message to type a that things are changing and that taiwan should take the message ok so they're dredging the sand what's the worst thing that can happen here. well it does cause a bit of a problem for the government in t

thank you for joining us from london, from the china institute. it is time now for business.e are joined by catherine bennett in the studio tonight. you are starting with the news that the u.k.'s economy shrunk at the start of this year. catherine: that is right, the economy contracted by 2.9% in january and is down 9% from figures a year ago. that may sou bad but economists are breathing a sigh of relief. experts have predicted significantly more of a fall in gdp. the somewhat positive data was overshadowed by the news that exports to the e.u. plunged after brexit. exports to the e.u. fell by 5.6 billion pounds in january, with exports of food and live animals the hardest hit, falling 63%. reporter: it has been over three months since the e.u. walked away from the single market and customs union, and trade between the two took a big hit in january. exports to the block plunged by over 20%, while exports from the e.u. to the u.k. suffered a decline of nearly 30%. it is the biggest fall since records began and experts say brexit is the culprit. >> the significant slope in expe

trace exchanges but sandra edging has crossed the line joining us is steve tang director of the china institute at so as the school of oriental and african studies in london steve this small island affair seems like a small matter for an outsider who might not follow the ins and outs of taiwan china relations why is this important. it is important because it is a new park. in the park the chinese government respected that it must rule and cumin and are territories under taiwan's control and therefore they will not go and direct descend from the from those islands now under siege in pain if policy has change which is that all these are now defined simply us chinese territory and they have borders no reason why the chinese government should not simply allowed chinese merchants and others to extract whatever they want to extract from chinese stop and territory is a very powerful message to type a that things are changing and that taiwan should take the message ok so they're dragging this sad what's the worst thing that can happen here. well it does cause a bit of a problem for the government in ta

cross trace exchanges but sandra has crossed the line joining us is steve tang director of the china institute at so us the school of oriental and african studies in london steve this small island affair seems like a small matter for an outsider who might not follow the ins and outs of taiwan china relations why is this important it is important because it is a new park. in the park the chinese government respected that it must rule and cumin and are territories under taiwan's control and therefore they will not go and direct descend from the from those islands now under siege in pain a policy has change which is that all these are now defined simply us chinese territory and therefore there's no reason why the chinese government should not simply allow old chinese merchants and others to extract whatever they want to extract from chinese stop and territory is a very powerful message to type a that things are changing and taiwan should take the message ok so they're dredging the sand what's the worst thing that can happen here. well it does cause a bit of a problem for the government in taiwan

facing up to what it's doing let's talk to gordon holden now he's the director emeritus of the china institute at the university of alberta in canada joining us there today and scott nice to see you professor i was interested enough that the european union decided to go strong today and they didn't go just start against china they also went against me and i think for other countries but then one by one these other countries all just fall in line this is looking pretty coordinated. it is looking very core here and certainly the e.u. u.k. u.s. and canada have taken a debt it all steps regarding officials in st john and that entity there i think that this is a clearly well set up in advance the chinese have reacted so it predictably i think and strongly it by merely issuing countermeasures phase of a the european sanctions of individuals and syngenta i expect that given the canadian sanctions were put in place a bit later because of time zone differences like specter in beijing wakes up there we will see similar countermeasures aimed at kennedy. even without its counter measures will china will c

bullish in this ranking that is compiled by research firm in london called together with the china development institute a lot of external data used a lot of a lot of external resources and not all cities worldwide are equally represented in the data that results in you know the well the result of saddam is not part of the ranking at all frankfurt on position but as you said above the paris that is quite remarkable i think. despite breaks it london is still very high on this list it's on position now but to right after new york and so what does what's needed frankly because as i say it is it's just managed to get back into the top 10 position 9 what's needed to frankly to cement it's a top 10 position or perhaps even improve. what would help frankfurt is definitely the banking union the idea of a more streamlined and common banking market in europe in the european union something that has been talked about for a long time but not much as. in effect happened. frankfurt would benefit from this because it would concentrate more business and acquisitions activity in the centers that are already there. now o

ties with institutions in china, and i think that was really putting a damper on this collaboration and engagement you need to foster the things we have been talking about this evening. when any chance of have -- when any tie to an educational or research institution in china could be potentially dangerous for an american scholar, that really hinders the sort of innovation and engagement i think the make are movement was founded on a decade ago or would have seen a lot more ten years ago, perhaps when you were doing your field work. so it's early in the bidens a norths see how that plays out but if the government stopped investigating researchers for having these institutional links that could perhaps lead to a resurgence or relaxation in attitudes towards collaboration with their counterparts in china. >> we have another question here. silvia thank you for this wonderful book and i love the book's cover, too much i'm curious how you see maker spaces and nation-beared ideologies changing in a covid landscape? we're seeing tech industries

president, about the good people of china, about confucius institutes, and the chinese communist party. i meant what i said when i referred to the good people of china. you visited china, mr. president. the people of china are wonderful people. they are engaging, they are smart. they have great sense of humor. they have built an extraordinary economy. i -- i wish i could say the same about their authoritarian government, but i can't. the communist party of china is trying to not only swallow china, it's trying to swallow the world. we helped china be admitted -- excuse me. we helped the communist party of china be admitted to the world trade organization. we were told that if we did, they would embrace free enterprise. we were told that the communist party of china would -- would be participant in a stable world. none of that has come to be the case. we know what the communist party of china has done to hong kong. we know what the communist party of china has done to the uighurs. we know what the communist party of china has done to the wonderful, wonderful people of tibet. but i did w

redfield that this came from a leak from a biology institute in china. guest: i think that is a heterodox position. is it completely out of the question? of course not. but we know this kind of virus is present in bats and this sort of thing has happened in the course of human history. i don't think it requires any crazy explanation. this is something people literally expected almost exactly this kind of thing to happen for decades stop it's not like we are talking about something that was a shock in any way. we have the original sars. people are searching for these explanations and i think it makes sense in some ways and the reason it makes sense is that the overall situation is so unprecedented and so awful for most people that people would like there to be somebody to blame. but we live on this earth with other organisms and viruses and this sort of thing has happened throughout human history and it doesn't require a bad actor. it doesn't require a conspiracy. this is how the world works and that is and of itself terrifying, so it makes sense people m

their plea for freedom from china was seen and heard around the world, after china tried to institute a new law that forced anyone charged to be tried in mainland china. a hong kong business tycoon fighting on the front lines of the protest frequently joined me from hong kong live to discuss. >> the dictatorship, we have to keep hong kong free. >> china made a promise. they said one country, two systems, and they are asking the chinese leadership to respect that commitment that they made. >> the situation is very serious. >> i think what it shows is an example of how china uses its power against its own people. >> we are fighting the first battle of this new cold war. we are fighting your battle here. please help us. >> he was arrested at least twice after that interview. the cries heard loud and clear from citizens in hong kong. a wake-up call to the world about life under the communist rule, something the chinese government prefers to keep out of the public eye. in light of china's turbulent year and its setback on its goal of supremacy, it is not crazy to wonder if this global pand

the european parliament so it's clearly that clear that china targets the european institution the only elected democratic institution the parliament and one of these piece is that i had beautiful of a german green a very vocal critic of the communist dictatorship in china he already said here in brussels that these counter measures are ridiculous and annoying into china but only harm itself now where does the e.u. go from here berent in terms of what does it want to achieve with these sanctions it hasn't posted a. but the actual impact on the 4 person sanctioned in china and one entity a minimal because yes it's freezing and travel ban will not in the personal way but it is a signal that the e.u. wants to send to beijing a political sickness after 32 years of no sanction they say this is enough human rights violations have to be punished somehow but on the other hand it's clear that the u. does not want to endanger the economic ties to china because of these ties much too important for all the common economies here in europe parents every good reporting from brussels thank you for that

-china relations with vijay prashad, the director of the tricontinental institute for social research. the vatican has declared it would not be blessing same-sex marriages or unions, arguing god "cannot bless sin." the recent announcement radically contradicts earlier comments made by pope francis where he stated same-sex couples should be allowed to have civil unions. in 2013, he famously said, "who -- "if a person is gay, who am i to judge?" lgbtq rights groups are condemning the vatican's move, calling it a drastic step backwards. indigenous land and water protectors on monday led several direct actions across the u.s. and canada against the construction of enbridge's line 3 pipeline, which would carry more than 750,000 barrels of tar sands oil a day through fragile ecosystems -- endangering lakes, rivers and wild rice beds. award-winning actor and activist jane fonda yesterday joined calls to stop the pipeline. close we were driving down the highway as we saw this and we saw the pipeline that they want to late under the headwaters of the mississippi. that company, enbridge, is a f

of course, the wuhan coronavirus, that sprung out of wuhan, china, came out of the wuhan institute ofology, and dr. fauci's argument today where we continues to defaim makes no sense if there was community spread -- wuhan. that is where the pandemic was launched on to world. steve: right. and the -- we know we'll get nothing of any use from w.h.o. investigation. we were supposed to have had it last week. let's talk about when the american people might get accountability for this. the question is, you are right. the chinese regime, their lab that allowed it to leak out. that looks like to be the case, we know they engaged in an aggressive cover-up straight after. but question is, what were they working on? the lab, why? and that leaked? that, trace back to our own government in form of dr. fauci and collins, do you think that if the republicans, if your party takes control of the house, in midterms, we might see a proper investigation into dr. fauci's role? >> well we cannot wait for that we have to determine whether or not any researchers dr. fauci or dr. collins or otherwise in u.s.

are expecting to pass within the next few jays, signals a rejection of the kind of democratic institutions chinaad tolerated since hong kong regained sovereign to -- sovereignty in 1997. a former british colonies since regaining sovereignty. more ahead. this is bloomberg. ♪ when you switch to xfinity mobile, you're choosing to get connected to the most reliable network nationwide, now with 5g included. discover how to save up to $300 a year with shared data starting at $15 a month, or get the lowest price for one line of unlimited. come into your local xfinity store to make the most of your mobile experience. you can shop the latest phones, bring your own device, or trade in for extra savings. stop in or book an appointment to shop safely with peace of mind at your local xfinity store. >> brent crude spikes more than tutored $71 per barrel this morning. the largest oil terminal came under a missile attack in saudi arabia. the latest from dell half, simone, give us more context, some detail on the attacks. >> the saudi energy ministry saying that the missiles hit a storage tank and also that shra

washington we have sort of ghouta he is asia pacific international relations specialist at the institute for chinaamerican studies and in london.

like chris wray, the fbi director, about the counterintelligence threats that china poses, everything from confucius institutes to students studying in the united states that are coerced into cooperating with their intelligence agencies, china seems to be everywhere. and you are right, sometimes people want to make this an issue about the country of china or the chinese people. this is the communist party's game plan. we need to up our game in order to compete. i have changed my attitude towards strategic investments in the technology and if we don't do it, our adversary well. we will be worse off for it. yes, the bill, the chips act that mike warner and i are sponsoring includes a provision for a tax credit that would be useful for any semiconductor manufacturer that wants to build a lab here in the united states. it is not company-specific. or it may be that we get an appropriation in this new china bill. one of the best meetings, the only meeting i have had at the white house since president biden has been in office has been on this topic of vulnerable supply chains and i do believe that there is bipartisan

washington we have sort of ghouta he is asia pacific international relations specialist at the institute for china american studies and in london we crossed when he came she is a policy analyst and senior lecturer in chinese international political economy or across up rules of the fact that means you can jump in anytime you want and i always appreciate it when it's going to set in washington i found lincoln's statements about china quite remarkable because basically what he said is that he didn't say and complete words but basically the international system that the united states has built since the 2nd world war designed by the united states directly by the united states everyone must conform to it and china must too and if it doesn't conform to it and that's how they define the threat is that a fair thing to say said no that's not our sort of like what it ought to jim in the beginning my introduction. was not international or exists right now. and which he has faith has been. a party to along with other democratic countries is under threat by china and weapon chinese call everything with chines

china. >> as for that theory, the disease was leaked from the institute of virology in wuhan.tment issued a statement today with 12 other countries in part saying there must now be a renewed commitment by the who and member states to access, transparency and timeliness. the message to beijing. back to you. >> martha: greg, thank you. my next guest lead the investigation under the previous state department leadership by secretary state mike pompeo looking into the origins of covid-19. he calls this who report a farce. david asher is now a senior fellow at the hudson institute. good to have you with us. i've been following your reports on this. i want to point out to everybody before they hear from you that you were the lead investigator in a nuclear procurement network case. you also uncovered of whats going on in north korea with regard to secret uranium enrichment. you say you believe this who report is a farce. what do you think actually happened? >> well, what exactly happened only the chinese can tell us about they're not about to. they have orchestrated a world health org

sanctions affected 4 individuals as well as governmental organizations but china hit back by sanctioning 10 individuals and 4 institutions including a human rights group and democracy foundation now this will have ramifications for the relationship between the e.u. and china last year china overtook the u.s. as the ears narges trading partner and the 2 parties at the end of 2020 finally agreed on the long discussed comprehensive investment treaty now that treaty is yet to be ratified by the e.u. precisely because some of the member states were raising questions about the human rights behavior by china now the e.u. has said that they want to start a dialogue with china but this is not going to be taken as a dialogue started by beijing this is probably going to be seen as a direct attack because they think has always denied that there were any human rights abuses taking place in john and what many have called reeducation camps beijing has maintained that these are simply vocational training centers designed to increase the economic opportunities of the weak minority and katrina just tell sensitive is china to international

and china i'm happy to welcome tonight neil melvin director of international security studies of the u.k.'s royal united services institute he joins us from geneva in switzerland tonight and from reston virginia bonnie glaser joins and she is director of the china power project at the center for strategic and international studies bonnie has also worked for the u.s. defense and state departments to both of you welcome i'd like to start by playing part of the address given by u.s. secretary of state blinken earlier this month and then get your reaction take a listen our relationship with china will be competitive when it should be collaborative when it can be an adversarial one it must be the common denominator is the need to engage china from a position of strength that requires working without eyes and partners not denigrating because our combined weight is much harder for china to ignore. body than a start with you when you consider the message from blink in the fact that blink and sullivan do not intend for today's meeting to be the 1st of several or the start of new talks what does the bind administration want from ch

and china i'm happy to welcome tonight neil melvin director of international security studies of the u.k.'s royal united services institute he joins us from geneva in switzerland tonight and from reston virginia bonnie glaser joins and she is director of the china power project at the center for strategic and international studies bonnie has also worked for the u.s. defense and state departments to both of you welcome i'd like to start by playing part of the address given by u.s. secretary of state blinken earlier this month and then get your reaction take a listen our relationship with china will be competitive when it should be collaborative when it candy and adversarial when it must be. the common denominator is the need to engage china from a position of strength that requires working without eyes and partners not denigrating because our combined weight is much harder for china to ignore. body than to start with you when you consider the message from blinken in the fact that blinken and sullivan do not intend for today's meeting to be the 1st of several or the start of new talks what does the bind administration want

institutions. here's our china correspondent robin brant.comes several days after the uk in a coordinated effort with the us and eu imposed sanctions on some prominent chinese figures all over those allegations as you heard john go into some detail in his report of human rights abuses in the xinjiang province against those uighur minority muslims. an hour or so ago we had this list from china's ministry of foreign affairs. among those being targeted includes an arm of the conservative party, it's human rights commission, prominent tory mps, iain duncan smith, tom tugendhat, the man in charge of the china research group. both of those men are among the harshest critics of beijing, among those putting the most pressure on boris johnson and his administration to be tougher on china. what it means is that these nine people and these four entities cannot have anything to do with china in terms of business or any chinese people either. if they own anything here those assets will be frozen. we are hearing some reaction very quickly from people like

. >> the city is a widely known center for viral study in china including the wuhan institute virologyis a remarkable conversation i feel like we are having here. because you were the former cdc director and you were the director at the time this was happening. >> the first time the former cdc director stated publicly that he believes this pandemic started months earlier. it originated inside a lab in china. >> these are two significant things to say. >> that's not applying any intentionality. it is my opinion. but i am a virologist. i do not believe this somehow came from a bat to a human and at that moment in time. the virus came to the human became one of the most infectious virus. it takes a while to figure out how it becomes more efficient. i just don't think this makes biological sense. >> in a lab, you think that process of becoming more efficient was happening? >> yes, i have coronavirus that i am working on. most of us trying to grow the virus and making it grow better and better so we can do experiments and figure it out. that's the way i put it together. >> so sanjay, just t

affairs ranking member michael mccall joined the virtual session hosted by the hudson institute about us and china relationships. the congressman will respond to questions on a number of topics including the chinese are valence space, 2022 beijing olympics, attack on democracy in hong kong and origins of thecoronavirus pandemic . this is just over half an hour. >> thanks to viewers for joining us for questions with representative michael mccall , america's relations with the republic of china. first elected in 2005 congressman mccall represents the 10th district which stretches from austin to houston. he has distinguished himself as a leader in homeland security, technology and foreign-policy. as the ranking member of the house foreign affairs committee representatives mccall has also been an important leaderon policy towards the people's republic of china including our human rights , us intensifying many facets of strategic rivalry with china's own communist party. i'm also joined by my colleague and fellow here at hudson, laurie is additionally a commissioner for the us commission on internation

finally, china's role in global governance and institutions like the united nations where she -- xi is fond of saying this. it is all about how xi jinping is trying to reorder the world order. i talk about how he is doing it and what the united states should do to respond. director rice: amy, when we first met, you were also going to be a china specialist. i don't think you are ever going to be a soviet specialist. i think you're probably too young to have cared. amy: that is kind of you to say but not true, i am not too young . i was originally a china person. i watched deng xiaoping visit the united states. my mom found a taiwanese immigrant who started tissue me chinese afterschool. he walked into a class that was taught by two incredible and difficult and demanding professors and became fascinated by booster relations. i moved from china and thinking about organizations and national security. like any clinical scientist, i cannot just do any case on joint security, i needed my third case. now, this book is a live algorithm, the history and future of american intelligence. it looks

somehow turn china from a foe to a friend through trade and diplomacy, or that allowing china into rules-based institutionsould turn china into a rules-based country. instead, sadly, the opposite has happened. the united states, of course, can't sever all commerce with one of the biggest economies on the planet, but we must recognize china for the threat it poses to our national security. to counter the threat that china poses, we should do four things. number one, we should protect ourselves from chinese espionage and interference. number two, we should insulate the supply lines of our critical resources from china, including by bringing them back to the united states. number three, we should insulate all commerce from enabling the chinese communist party's human rights abuses, including their systematic pattern of torture and murder and genocide. and number four, we should vigorously compete to secure our interests. on the first point, one important thing the department of commerce does is maintain an entities list, which is a list of foreign parties and companies that engage in activities contrary to am

the city is a widely known center for viral studies in china, including the wuhan institute of virologybat coronaviruses. >> you are the former cdc director and you were the director at the time this was all happening. for the first time, the former cdc director is stating publicly that he believes this pandemic started months earlier than we knew and that it originated not at a wet market but inside a lab in china. these are two significant things to say, dr. redfield. >> that's not implying any intentionality. it's my opinion. but i am a virologist. at that moment in normally when the pathogen goes to humans, it takes a while to figure out how it becomes efficient. i don't think it makes logical sense. >> do you think in the lab that process is efficient of what's happening, is that what you are suggesting? >> i have coronavirus and i am working on i. most of us in the lab trying to grow the virus, trying to make it better and better so we can do experiments. that's the way i put it together. >> our chief medical correspondent dr. sanjay gupta joins us now. wow, it is incredible to he

dinar so that's believed to help in the process of building up libya's libya's institutions many thanks for that malik china live in tripoli soldiers in mozambique have launched an offensive after a rebel finds his way to the northern town of palma forcing residents to flee pummel was considered a safe haven around $70000.00 people fled there from other places it's also the base for offshore gas exploration projects with some 60000000000 dollars groups lengths eisel have launched similar attacks in the region since 2070. well wind up with something really cool you know he also called on the population to collaborate with the authorities denouncing terrorists and armed men for then utilization the defense and security forces will do everything to ensure the well being of the population against him in acts perpetrated by terrorists while continuing to guarantee the protection of economic projects. still ahead on out there we'll tell you about north korea's 1st major provocation since u.s. president joe biden took office. nation right on meeting to figure out whether to name a vaccine exports but it may come a

china repeatedly blocked american inspectors from visiting the institute. when the ccp did eventually open the building up to the w.h.o. scientist, well, let's just say they didn't get that close of a look. the w.h.o. had three hours, that's all, to tour the facility. they had no access to samples, no access to records no. access to key personnel. here's a former clinton official on the nature of this inspection. >> i wouldn't really call what's happened now an investigation. it's essentially a highly chaperoned, highly curated study tour. >> study tour? everybody around the world is imagining this is some kind of full investigation. it's not. this group of experts only saw what the chinese government wanted them to see. imagine if we had asked the soviet union to do a co-investigation of chernobyl. it doesn't really make sense. >> rachel: you cannot take anything the chinese communist party says at face value. whether it's the treatment of the uighurs, their brutal crackdowns in hong kong, or the origins of covid-19. china has proven time and time again th

entities are 2 committees of the european parliament so it's clearly that clear that china targets the european institution the only elected democratic institution the parliament and one of these piece is that i had beautiful of a german green a very vocal critic of the communist dictatorship in china he already said here in brussels that these countermeasures are ridiculous and annoying and china would only harm itself now where does the e.u. go from here barents in terms of what does it want to achieve with the sanctions it has imposed today but the actual impact on the 4 person sanctioned in china and one entity a minimal because yes it's freezing and travel ban will not in a personal way but it is a signal that the e.u. wants to send to be jing a political signal after 32 years of no sanction they say this is enough human rights violations have to be punished somehow but on the other hand it's clear that the u. does not want to endanger the economic ties to china because of these ties much too important for the common in the economies here in europe parents every good reporting from brussels thank you

what wuhan does have is china's level four virology institute with probably the world's largest collectionluding bat coronaviruses. >> stahl: i had seen that the world health organization team only spent three hours at the lab. >> metzl: while they were there, they didn't demand access to the records and samples and key personnel. >> stahl: that's because of the ground rules china set with the w.h.o., which has never had the authority to make demands or enforce international protocols. >> metzl: it was agreed first that china would have veto power over-- over who even got to be on the mission. secondly... >> stahl: and w.h.o. agreed to that. >> metzl: w.h.o. agreed to that. on top of that, the w.h.o. agreed that in most instances, china would do the primary investigation and then just share its findings... >> stahl: no. >> metzl: ...with these international experts. so, these international experts weren't allowed to do their own primary investigation. >> stahl: wait, you're saying that china did the investigation and showed the results to the committee, and that was it? >> metzl: pretty mu

did with these people tough stuff but has big gene gone too far china's sanctions against european peace scientists and political institutions as well as non-governmental organizations represent an inappropriate escalation that unnecessarily strains ties between the e.u. and china chinese ambassadors were also summit in italy and france embassies were flooded with concerns and protests europe appeared to be united in outrage for union so liberal with sanctioning others europe really doesn't like to be on the receiving end china has retaliated to those sanctions and rather than changes policies and address our legitimate concern and china is against a blind eye and these measures are reactive will the next unacceptable. it since i think about the towel parliament would even entertain their idea fred to find the e.u. china investment agreement while its members and one of his kmita is on the sanctions efficient statement of the chinese side explained what are these that push china to do this that todd they say of the hypocrisy the double standards that europe applies to itself and its friends and different standards to everyon

the city is a widely known center for viral studies in china, including the wuhan institute of virology which has experimented extensively with bat coronaviruses. >> it is a remarkable conversation i feel like we're having here because you are the former cdc director, and you were the director at the time this was all happening. >> for the first time the former cdc director is stating publicly that he believes this pandemic started months earlier than we knew and that it originated not at a wet market but inside a lab in china. these are two significant things to say, dr. redfield. >> that's not implying any intentionality, you know. it's my opinion, right? but i am a virologist. i have spent my life in viral >> narrator: i do not believe this somehow came from a bat to a human and at that moment in time the virus came to the human became one of the most infectious viruses that we know in humanity for human-to-human transmission. usually when it goes from a zoo note to a human it takes a while how to become more and more efficient in human-to-human transmission. i just don't think this

the city is a widowly known center for viral studies in china, including the wuhan institute of virologyt coronaviruses. >> it's a remarkable conversation. i feel like we're having here. because you are the former cdc director and you were the director at the time this was all happening. >> for the first time the former cdc director is stating publicly that he believes in pandemic started months earlier than we knew. and that it originated not at a wet market but inside of a lab in china. >> these are two significant things to say, dr. redfield. >> that's not implying any intentionality. you know, it's my opinion. all right, but "i" a virologyists. i've spent my life life in virology. i do not believe it came from a bat to a human. and at that moment in time the virus that came to the human became one of the most infectious viruss we know in humanity for human transmission. normally when a pathogen goes from a zoo in the ode it human it takes a while how it to become more efficient in human to human transmission. i don't think this makes biological sense. >> in the lab do you think that

. >>> the city is a widely known center for viral studies in china, including the wuhan institute of which has experimented extensively with bat coronaviruses. >> it is a remarkable conversation i feel like we're having here. you are the former cdc director and were the director at the time it was all happening. >> for the first time the former cdc director is stating publicly he believes in pandemic started months earlier than we knew and it originated not at a wet market, but inside a lab in china. these are two significant things to say, dr. red field. >> that's not implying any intentionality. it's my opinion, right? but i am a virologist, i have spent my life in virology. i do not believe this somehow came from a bat to a human, and at that moment in time the virus that came to the human became one of the most infectious viruses we know in humanity. normally when it goes from an mall to human, it takes a while to figure out how to be more efficient if human-to-human transaccomplice. >> do you think in the lab that process of becoming more efficient -- >> let's say i have a coron