for tonight's conversations with great minds i'm joined by chris hayes chris is a political commentator and host of up with chris hayes which airs saturday and sunday mornings on m.s.n. b.c. he's also the editor at large of the nation magazine and writes on issues central to the progressive community including what is hurting the democratic party and how the labor movement is changing chris is a graduate of brown university and bachelor's degree in philosophy he's also the author of the critically acclaimed newly released book twilight of the elites america after meritocracy chris joins me now from our new york city studios chris welcome. oh it's great to be here tom thanks for having me great to have you with us chris before we get to the book i'm curious about you what got you into politics what what what is the core of your passion for these topics and how did you get to where you are. you know i grew up in the bronx my my father was a community organizer my mom was an educator she taught in the south bronx and you know i was very lucky to grow up in a world you know my parents are very working class middle c

political analyst, former pennsylvania çgovernor, ed rendell, the host of msnbc's "up with chris hayes," christ of the elites" and "usa today" politics reporter, the lovely jackie kucinich is on set with us. fresh off his health care victory, president obama is back in the mode of commander in chief today. the president is flying to colorado right now, where firefighters are battling the largest fire in state history. when he returns to washington, there will still be burning embers as republicans characterize the supreme court's ruling on the affordable care act as a new tax and vow to repeal it. after the ruling yesterday, there was no spiking of the football or victory dance from the president, but our friends over at the "tonight" show gave us a look at what that might look like. ♪ >> i think he's feeling pretty good about it. >> joining us now from washington is "time" magazine and msnbc senior political analyst who does a mean moonwalk, i hear, mark halperin, whose magazine is putting out a special edition on the high court's decision titled "roberts

chris hayes," chris hayes, also author of "twilight of the elites" and "usa today" politics reporter, the lovely jackie kucinich is on set with us. fresh off his health care victory, president obama is back in the mode of commander in chief today. the president is flying to colorado right now, where firefighters are battling the largest fire in state history. when he returns to washington, there will still be burning embers as republicans characterize the supreme court's ruling on the affordable care act as a new tax and vow to repeal it. after the ruling yesterday, there was no spiking of the football or victory dance from the president, but our friends over at the "tonight" show gave us a look at what that might look like. ♪ >> i think he's feeling pretty good about it. >> joining us now from washington is "time" magazine and msnbc senior political analyst who does a mean moonwalk, i hear, mark halperin, whose magazine is putting out a special edition on the high court's decision titled "roberts' rules." great to see you. >> thank you. i was dancing along with the president there. camera didn't come to me right just in time. >> mark, let's talk a little bit about the reaction to this decision. joe biden probably was doing the moonwalk.ç generally speaking, though, is this the beginning of the end of debate over whether the affordable care act is good legislation or not? >> it's not -- it's going to be tied up in the election and it's going to be tied up in dealing with the fiscal cliff. you can't deal with the debt and the deficit without going into the health care programs that are obviously a big part of the affordable care act. even the president has said it's going to need to be dealt with. we need a serious debate between these two candidates about a range of issues particularly related to debt and deficit. i think again, no matter what the outcome of the election, the presidential and congressional, you are going to have to reopen a lot of the issues that are tied up here, if you're going to do serious deficit reduction which we must do in january and february. >> i want to open this up to the panel. chrisu already started to answer the question. >> i don't think we need serious deficit reduction in january and february just as a substantive matter. i think that would be disastrous and even mitt romney said essentially as much in an interview with mark halperin which is a really good interview and got mitt romney -- didn't get mitt romney to say, we can't do a whole bunch of deficit reduction at the front end in terms of where the economy is. the question that's interesting to ponder, someone said this is the tea party's roev wade. the question is whether that's the case or not, whether this is the kind of decision that is going to trigger a generation long struggle and animus towards the court or whether it's something people are frustrated with now but essentially the law will normalize and people will accept it. >> here's the thing. whether or not you think that there needs to be a lot of deficit reduction, depending on how congress is made up, you will see a lot of people pushing fo

of elites do we have to revalue our belief in meritocracy joining me tonight is chris hayes host of s n b c's up with chris hayes and author of the new book twilight of the elites america after meritocracy chris thanks so much for joining us tonight it's a granddaughter that is also editor at large of the nation right where we forgot to add one of those in there so you start off here by you know looking at a lot of polling that's out there we see a lot of numbers that show us that americans don't trust their institutions anymore be it the supreme court or congress or the office of the presidency you know you even bring in the media and you bring in the catholic church and major league baseball but at the root of it all why is it such a dark time. you know the historic levels of distrust we see in our pillar institutions and this as you know it's been captured by polling polling that started i should say in one thousand nine hundred thirty which was the last crisis of the in the country right in the wake of watergate in the wake of vietnam there was this broad sense that we had lost trust in the traditional

chris hayes, host of "msnbc's weekend morning show "up with chris hayes." author of the new book that comes out tomorrow. i have read this book. it's wonderful. you guys should all buy it. chris, you should be proud of it. >> i appreciate that, ezra. >> chris, thank you for joining me. >>> it is on between the united states government and the government of the state of florida. anything you can sue, i can sue better. >>> and the stakes are really, really high for the rest at country and in fact for small "d" democracy, itself. that story's next. ♪ [ natalie ] i was born to swim but my hair isn't so lucky. hours and hours in the pool mages it. that's why i love pantene daily moisture renewal. [ female announcer ] the pro-v system nourishes for healthier hair in less than 7 days. [ natalie ] i want to win as an athlete and shine as a woman. [ female announcer ] daily moisture renewal from pantene. hair so healthy it shines. ♪ >>> for all of the viewers have written in wondering why this show doesn't spend for time talking about giant tortoises, you know who yo

chris hayes, host of "msnbc's weekend morning show "up with chris hayes." author of the new book that comes out tomorrow. i have read this book. it's wonderful. you guys should all buy it. chris, you should be proud of it. >> i appreciate that, ezra. >> chris, thank you for joining me. >>> it is on between the united states government and the government of the state of florida. anything you can sue, i can sue better. >>> and the stakes are really, really high for the rest at country and in fact for small "d" democracy, itself. that story's next. do you read out loud or in your head? do you need a lamp to see? and does it leave your bedmate be? don't you wish there was a light that wouldn't keep them up all night? if so, you'll be happy to know, our newest nook now comes with glow. introducing nook simple touch with glowlight, the only e-reader made for bedtime reading. find your nook at your neighborhood barnes & noble. olaf's pizza palace gets the most rewards of any small business credit card! pizza!!!!! [ garth ] olaf's small business earns 2% cash back o

do you think that chris hayes should have apologized for his comments ok i really respect chris hayes and i think but i'm glad he did apologize for his comments because i think that all soldiers are i believe that they're all heroes well for on you tube wrote in to say he doesn't think should have apologized and agrees that things like memorial day are use a glorified war an increase in list meant more than show appreciation for the sacrifices made in war there is a danger and deifying members of the military in other words they can do no wrong they deserve our support no matter what i don't think that just because we have armed forces that it glorifies worse i don't agree with bad i read your sponsor and david on facebook he said chris was absolutely right he should have never apologized we need to be able to discuss things even if they're controversial what do you think. but i do agree with being able to discuss things even if they are controversial but that's a pretty strong statement to to to make so and on you tube said hayes should not have apologized there are heroes but the ma

our thanks to chris hayes, karen finney, with the big difference, and ken vogel. and of course chris's on saturday and sunday. don't miss it. a programming note. starting next week our broadcast moves one hour later to 4:00 p.m. eastern so be sure to join us at our new time. on monday we welcome a new show at 3:00 p.m. called "the cycle" and it features four friends of in very broadcast. do stay with us at 3:00 and 4:00. stay with us now. much more ahead. >> you know, i've been lucky in things that worked out for me. i feel a lot of it has been luck. >> i'll be having dinner with penelope tonight. >> oh, lucky you. >> it's not luck. todd. ♪ let's get rich and buy our parents' homes in the south of france let's get rich and give everybody nice sweaters and teach them how to dance let's get rich and build a house on a mountain ♪ [ donovan ] i hit a wall. and i thought "i can't do this, it's just too hard." then there was a moment. when i decided to find a way to keep going. go for olympic gold and go to college too. [ male announcer ] every day we help students earn their bachelor's or m

chris hayes, host of msnbc's weekend morning show "up with chris hayes." author of the new book that comes out tomorrow. i have read this book. it's wonderful. you guys should all buy it. chris, you should be proud of it. >> i appreciate that, ezra. it means a lot. >> chris, thank you for joining me. >>> it is on between the united states government and the government of the state of florida. anything you can sue, i can sue better. >>> and the stakes are really, really high for the rest at country and in fact for small "d" democracy, itself. that story's next. but thanks to the htc one x from at&t, with its built in beats audio, every note sounds amazingly clear. ...making it easy to get lost in the music... and, well... rio vista?!! [ male announcer ] ...lost. introducing the musically enhanced htc one x from at&t. rethink possible. [ male announcer ] they were born to climb... born to leap, born to stalk, and born to pounce. to understand why, we journeyed to africa, where their wild ancestor was born. there we discovered that cats, no matter where they a

chris says that is how we'll freeze ourselves from all our elite institutions being such epic catastrophic failures. interesting, right? joining us now for the interview, my friend and colleague, chris hayes, and the author of the brand new blockbuster "twilight of the elites." congratulations. you did it. >> thank you very much. it's wonderful to be here, wonderful to see you healthy and happy and in the anchor chair again. >> as i start with all -- with guests in situations like this, tell me what i got wrong about your thesis or at least tell me if i got it right, that wanting more equality in the united states is maybe a solution to us sucking so badly at everything we're supposed to be good at. >> i'm so glad that you showed that data because i think we do have a sense, and you hear this on the left a lot, america is unequal because americans like it that way, because americans buy into this idea that it should be this way, that the job creators are owed deference, and that is interesting because it shows we have more galatarian impulses than we give ourselves credit for, that we underestimate just how unequal the society is and we want it to be more equal. if my analysis is right, and i'm partial to think it is, i think that is the way out because ultimately, what we're seeing in the fail decade, over the last ten years, i think, is the inevitable crises that extreme inequality of the kind we have had produces. and the reason it produces it, and this is really important, is it produces a society in the elites have the social distance from the people whose decisions that -- the people who experience the effects of their decisions, and that's a recipe for catastrophe. that's all sorts of examples of how that plays out. >> you have to have an elite that has to earn it. you have to get back to amare talkerousy, you have to be in charge of something because you have proven to be good alt something, and there has to be more competition to be in the elite? >> we have a system of tremendous competition now. some of the problems we have, the jamie dimons of the world are a perfect example, but we have a terrible combination of, it's kind of like the bailouts, they were the worst parts of socialism and the worst part of capitalism, we have the worst part of this ceaseless competition and don't have accountability at the top. think about the fact that we have seen more baseball players before juries for lying about steroid use, than we have seen major bankers before juries for the largest destruction of wealth in the history of the country. right? we have a country that is incredibly, incredibly at the bottom, we put more people in prison than any other industrialized community, and we have a labor system in which you can be fired because you give your boss the wrong look or call him dude, yet at the top, we see almost no accountability. we see the same people who sold the iraq war still dining out on that. we see the same people who brought down wall street have jobs or are left with golden parachutes. that produces perverse incentives for the decision makers at the top. >> how do you see us getting toward an accountability that makes the elite a better elite? >> a huge part of it, i think, is making the society more equal. it gets back to the chart you showed in the beginning. we can't have a society in which the people at the top are that much -- are so removed from the experience of ordinary life, and there's all kinds of ways you can think about shrinking it. one of is the fact that you see play out, and you basically wrote a book about this entire thing and identified this quite well, which is think about the wars we have fought for ten years, the longest period of war in public history. the number of veterans in congress is at historic lows. we have the people at the top of the income strata and the educational strata increasingly alienated and removed from the folks to fight the war, bear the burden with record amounts of tours, et cetera, and that facilitates the length of the engagements. we have to come up with ways to shrink that, the embed our elites in the same system that everybody else is in. >> so people feel the pain they're inflicting with bad ideas in their own lives in their own families' lives. chrises is the author of "twilight of the elites." host of "up with chris hayes." when you asked me to read the book, i said this is the next big thing we have been waiting for. i think that. i think this is the concept we need to be debating in terms o talking ability big picture stuff. this is a huge achievement, really impressed. >> that means a lot. thanks a lot. >> best new thing in the world coming up. never mind, see you later. >>> new election results tonight in what is probably the most watched, most highly anticipated county judicial race in the country. the hotly contested kreep versus peed race for superior judge in san diego, california. it is finally over. more than two weekafter election day. they are still counting absentee ballots, but as of today, gary kreep is more than a thousand votes ahead of garland peed, which means kreep beats peed. the reason this has been the most watched race for county judge in forever is because it's kreep versus peed, which is amazing, but gar

chris. they're not off message. they don't have a message. melissa, chris, thank you for being here. be sure to catch up with chris hayesaturdays and sundays from 8:00 a.m. to 9:00 a.m. and tune in to "melissa harris-per harris-perry" starting at 10:00 a.m. saturday here on msnbc. >>> coming up, republicans have a new lineç of attack. the health care law is a massive tax. but willard shouldn't be talking. we're breaking out the tapes again. >>> plus the right wing freakout after the big decision. rand paul hints at a revolt. and mike compares it to 9/11. we're taking a close look at this one. you're watching "politicsnation" on msnbc. high schools in six states enrolled in the national math and science initiative... ...which helped students and teachers get better results in ap courses. together, they raised ap test scores 138%. just imagine our potential... ...if the other states joined them. let's raise our scores. let's invest in our teachers and inspire our students. let's solve this. you're entered for a chance to win a trip to the olympic games for life. to cheer the summer athletes to new heights, starting in 20

joining the table, the most of msnbc's "up with chris hayes" and editor at large at the "nation" magazine, chriswilight of the elites america after ameri tockcracy." >> great to be here. good morning. >> a lot to get to. >> to the news and then let's get to the book. >> all right. we'll start with politics this hour. today mitt romney kicks off his battleground bus tour and president obama returns home to chicago after both candidates drew millions of dollars from fund-raisers last night. in new york city, the president took in about $4.5 million, one fund-raiser was at the home of sarah jessica parker -- >> look at this. keep that picture up. >> pretty people. >> we show these graphics before and senor, this is a sister of our life. >> what? >> as republicans. so this is how -- >> unbelievable. >> how a democratic fund-raiser lo looks. >> yeah. >> you're beautiful. >> there was alicia keys. >> surrounded by beautiful, talented people. keep going. >> meanwhile, romney raised money in obama's hometown of chicago. >> stop right there. >> where are they? you're always by yourself, the dork in the b

joining me today, chris hayes is the host of a little program known as "up with chris hayes" here onites, america after meritocracy" which is on

joining me today, chris hayes is the host of a little program known as "up with chris hayes" here onites, america after meritocracy" which is on stands today. carol lee is here from the "wall street journal." we are happy to see her. patricia murphy of citizen jane politics and a contributor to the daily beast. and msnbc contributor, steve kornacki of salon.com. president obama is arriving right now in maryland for the first of six fund-raising events today. the president's cash dash comes after an interview blitz with local tv stations yesterday focusing on rural republican areas. meanwhile, mitt romney is also reaching out to rural voters, launching a bus tour on friday dubbed quote, every town counts. but if you look at the battlegrounds where the campaigns have been focusing their ad dollars, romney's bus tour hits five of those states as well as michigan, where poll numbers are tightening. so apparently, every town counts as long as its state is crucially important in november. this morning, romney called on the president to stop fund-raising and start listening. >> look, people

chris hayes, the author of "the twilight elites: america after the meritocracy." i would love to have a conversation with you about private prisons, a whole show on that. and you can watch "up" with chris every saturday and sunday at 8:00 a.m. eastern on msnbc. coming up, john kerry answers a casting call to the white house. and the subtle but sure change in mitt romney recently. and who is winning the war of words on immigration. all coming up. but first, the white house soup of the day. mushroom and leek. that's a great one. more of a winter soup, though. i don't know why they're having it in june. but still pretty darn good. and don't forget, you can always follow the show on facebook. you're watching "the daily rundown" only on msnbc. zack brown, taking you out. two days in a row. ♪ ♪ free as we'll ever be with , or treat gas with these after you get it. now that's like sunblock before or sun burn cream later. oh, somebody out there's saying, now i get it! take beano before and there'll be no gas. he doesn't look like a heart attack patient. i was teaching a martial arts class and it hit me. we get to the emergency room... and then...and then they just wheeled him away. i had to co

and in office politics, our buddy chris hayes is going to tell us why he bikes to work and give prediction about election 2012. it may not be what you think. >> i love christhat geek is good. eat good fats. avoid bad. don't go over 2000... 1200 calories a day. carbs are bad. carbs are good. the story keeps changing. so i'm not listening... to anyone but myself. i know better nutrition when i see it: great grains. great grains cereal starts whole and stays whole. see the seam? more processed flakes look nothing like natural grains. you can't argue with nutrition you can see. great grains. search great grains and see for yourself. for multi grain flakes that are an excellent source of fiber try great grains banana nut crunch and cranberry almond crunch. >>> quick. if i ask you to imagine the iconic face of technological innovation, who do you think of? the creative genius behind apple, the late steve jobs or bill gates, the mastermind behind microsoft? maybe the recent headlines about facebook's ipo have mark zuckerberg on your mind. i propose you think of these faces. don't adjust your television set. if one woman has her way, the little black girls will b