former ambassador to russia mike depaul and former director at the department of homeland security chris krebs. stay with us. welcome back. for those just joining i am david ignatius, columnist for the washington post. -- foreign affairs columnist for the washington post. our next guest about threats to democracy at home and abroad is the former ambassador to russia mike -- michael mcfall and the former director of cybersecurity infrastructure at the apartment homeland security, chris krebs. michael and chris, welcome. >> thank you for having us. >> good to see you. david: chris, let me lead with you. you got sacked in the last months of the trump administration for pride to protect our elections. i want to ask you how you would gauge elections at home and abroad, particularly in your area of spencer lesage and -- specialization. what would be your report card as of now? chris: i think i am best situated to talk about the to -- domestic election landscape. the unfortunate reality is we probably are backsliding from an elections administration perspective. it is not to -- not due to the 2020 el

former dhs cyber security chief chris krebs is joining us now. sir, thank you so much for being with us tonight. if you can just tell us a little bit about this call and what the goal was here. >> well, i'll tell you my perspective from participating in this -- in the phone call. you know, for the last year or so i think i've been pretty vocal. i've been on cnn plenty of times and other networks as well to talk about the danger that the former president trump still poses to democracy and the way his corrosive effect on the republican party, not just at the federal level here in washington, d.c. but throughout state and local elections across the country. so, what i'm trying to do is identify any of those fellow travellers, those folks that i used to work with in the last administration, that have good ideas, that have voices, that have influence that can work to ensure that we don't have a repeat of the trump era. >> so, where do you start? i understand that looking at candidates he is going to support in the midterm election is one place. >> wel

what if there is no chris krebs, someone like you where people listen to you. what happens if those people right lane not in place? >> the dynamics will certainly be different at the federal level with the current administration in '24 at least. out there again across the country in the 50 states and those state capitols, it's a valid question of what happens if you do have someone that's carrying the flag for trump and what are those legal avenues. i think one of the things congress should do now is take a hard look at updating the electoral count about and clarify who in fact the state authorities that would sign out those slate of electors. we don't have a situation where they sign one slate and another. that was a real threat and in 2020 and in 2024 is more of a significant risk. it's low-hapgnging fruit that ty can get on top of it now. >> do you think this administration is doing enough that they are concerned of the threats? >> you know if you look at the debate in congress or at least the diagnoslogue and discourse congress, voting rights is the number

security and infrastructure security agency at the department of homeland security, that's a mouthful, chris krebs, michael and chris, welcome. >> thanks for having us. >> hey, david, good to see you. >> chris, let me lead off with you. you got sacked last year in the last months of the trump administration basically for trying to protect our elections and speaking out clearly and directly about threats -- i'm going to ask you about how you would gauge threats to elections at home and abroad, in particular in your area of specialization, cyber security, but more generally. what would be your report card as of right now, december, 2021? >> well, i think i'm probably most, or best situated to talk about the domestic elections landscape and i think the unfortunate reality is that we probably, you know, we're backsliding from an elections administration perspective and it's not due to the professional election officials, the real heros of the 2020 election. it's because of political interference at the state level in federal elections and specifically, you look at arizona, look at georgia, a few of th

joining me now is chris krebs, former director of the cybersecurity and infrastructure security agencyhe trump administration. chris, it's good to have you. this order is talking about voting machines, specifically citing dominion voting machines, saying that they had technology within them that changed votes, and that these machines were connected to the internet. you're the one that was in charge of all of this. tell me the truth. >> katy, that's not all it says. i mean, this document is one of the most fantastical reads i've had in quite some time. it's kind of a ripped from the conspiracy theory headlines document. and it actually mirrors a lot of the claims and recommendations in the slide deck that we first heard about back in december from the mark meadows disclosure. so, you know, it goes well beyond just dominion. it mentions virtually every other election equipment machine manufacturer and some of the back end systems. so, again, it's a remarkable document. i do think, though, and i caution everybody to kind of not to overrotate on this, because it seems to me it's a very ear

that chris krebs said on this network. then i want to ask you more about how the defense department ended up in this role in this draft. >> it actually is a very clear violation of the posi come at that timis act which you can't use federal troops for domestic law enforcement. by asking dodd to seize these machines is a clear violation of the law. so it's pretty crazy. now, all that said, had it cleared the process and been signed out by the president because we know the process didn't always work at the tail end of the last sad administration i assume it would have been immediately -- you know, several states, including michigan, which was likely a target of the lawsuit, would have immediately sought an injunction. and maybe the president may have actually seen his day at the supreme court. it's such an incredible read. it truly reads to me almost like an op ed in news max or the gateway pundit or something like that. it refers back to a number of reports that had been early discredited by any relevant expert by the time

let's speak now to 2 2 now to 2 2 chris krebs, cyber—policy expert and former director of the cybersecurityand what they did to upset they are and what they did to upset the us. ~ , ., . ., the us. well revil is a criminal read somewhere _ the us. well revil is a criminal read somewhere that - the us. well revil is a criminal read somewhere that operatesj read somewhere that operates predominantly out of russia. they are predominantly responsible for the most impactful attacks this past summer on american critical infrastructure. most notably the colonial pipeline attack, which is a pipeline that distributes patrol around the united states. i live in the washington, dc area and due to that rental where attack i could get gas for my car for four or five days. it was a significant operation, significantly disruptive and certainly caught the attention of the white house here in the us and lead to a series of discussions of engagement with the kremlin. and perhaps this is a result of those discussions and the diplomacy between the white house and the kremlin. ., . ., , kremlin. how much of thes

you talk about the authorities that the executive order cites, many we have talked to, including chris krebs who oversaw the election, and called it one of the safest elections we've had, brought up the whole concept that militaries are for work outside the country, and should not be involved in civil administration. goes back to roman times about why generals were not allowed to cross the rubicon river under command of an army coming back into rome. it seems obvious, every member of the military knows this rule, you can't be involved in civil stuff inside the country. how did the administration think that might have even possibly been legal? >> to be clear. we don't know that this executive order was produced by someone in the administration. in fact, the draft executive order, what it most closely recalls are proposals that sidney powell, an outside lawyer who did work for president trump was advocating for at the time. the draft executive order is dated december 16th. two days later on december 18th, sidney powell, michael flynn and the former ceo of overstock.com had a meeting with presi

what a travesty that only 55% of americans believe chris krebs lifelong republican and bill barr.inal act. what do we do about that? >> well, first of all, it's more than depressing. think about what the worst case scenario was a year ago. the delegit mization. people will not accept the results of these elections so what do we do about it? i hope that the january 6th committee does have the prime time televised hearing because they afford things they need to do. they need to tell the story. show the pictures, connect the dots and hold the ring leaders accountable. and i think all of those things are absolutely necessary. you know, don't give into the frustration. don't be exhausted by it all. keep pushing it. i do think that the images of the testimony of the police officers, the videotapes of the level of violence. what we now know about what the president knew and what he failed to do then of course raising the question what are we going to do about it? are we just going to indict and jail the people who entered the capitol? what about the people who incited them to enter the c

joining me is chris krebs, he led the department of homeland security cybersecurity agency in the lastesident's baseless climbs of widespread voter fraud. chris, good to have you back. what do you make of this reporting by npr? given that there has been reporting that former vice president's top aides have been cooperating, how crucial could hearing from the vice president himself be for the committee? >> well, i think it's an indication that we could be nearing the final stages of an investigation. now, i'm not a former department of justice, you know, attorney or anything like that, but i do know that the committee staff is built on top of a number of experienced u.s. attorneys. so i think they are laddering up. they started with the ground troops and they are working up the organization to understand what led to not just the terrible events of january 6th at the capitol and the assault on the capitol, but what was going on behind the scenes, what was going on with the coordination to object to the certification of the various states. so, you know, i think they are taking a multi-lay

in our last hour chris krebs the federal official fired after rejecting the former president's baselessaud. according to cnn reporting, a dozen republicans who questioned the integrity of the 2020 election are running to be chief elections officers, including in many key swing states. that shadowy company that conducted the audit is closing down. the so-called cyber ninjas cited millions of dollars in debt. maricopa county released a rebuttal of the claims, concluding 76 of 77 were false or misleading. another election official on the front lines of democracy as it were, colorado secretary of state janet griswold. as the top elections official in colorado, what goes through your mind when you hear about the number of republicans, many loyalists to the former president in swing states and supporters of the big lie, running for key positions like yours? >> well, thanks for having me on, anderson. and what goes through my mind is concern. major concern. in every swing state where there is a secretary of state race in 2022, there is a republican candidate who is either at the insurrection o

. >> reporter: chris krebs, once served as trump's cybersecurity advisor. >> this is a violation on itso theis a, a degree restriction on using federal troops for federal law enforcement action. >> reporter: but there is more. the paper cites a forensic report that found toe minute kbrun voting machines used in several bagram states were intentionally and purposefully designed with inherent errors to create systemic fraud and influence election results. the draft falsely says dominion is owned and controlled by foreign entities, adding multiple expert witnesses identified acts of foreign interference in the election. but that report was soundly debunked about i a much more comprehensive analysis by the state of michigan. while a judge cited in the draft questioned whether the machines might be subject to tampering, the paper claims it happened. witnesses in georgia have provided evidence of crashes. the replacement of a server. impermissible updates. but the draft offers no prove and dominion officials are suing some trump advisors for billions for defamation. >> this was absolute banan

fara griffin, former security director of cyber security and infrastructure and a security agency chris krebs general john kelly, they were just a few on a conference call last week, and my next guest helped organize that call. miles taylor was the department of homeland security chief of staff during the trump administration. he is now cofounder and executive director of the renew america movement. miles, welcome. this was so fascinating when this story broke. i'm glad you're here to talk about this because the power of donald trump over the republican party does not seem to be waning at all. you've got local candidates, they're loyal to donald trump. they're popping up in races across this country. talk about the conversations you're having with this group of former and many high profile trump staffers. do you have a strategy? i mean, has everyone agreed on one approach to defeat these candidates or how is this working? >> well, i'll answer in short, alex. we're coalescing around something, but i want to answer your first question, which is why are folks doing this. i think in your previous

chris krebs said it was the more secure election in our country's history.t doesn't matter in the fact-immune republican base. and i wonder if you can pick up on what symone is talking about, is there a plan b, and maybe the most biden line of the whole speech was to say, i've been having quiet talks, the likes of which symone's been talking about, president and vice president have been meeting with stakeholders. president got, i think, the loudest response when he said, i'm done being quiet. >> yeah, i think this is kind of him putting a flag in the ground and saying, this is where i'm going to fight. i think it's a smart fight to make. you know, there is no one in america who thinks there's something insidious about giving people that are in line to vote water. you know? i mean, that's the kind of stuff they do in, like, weird countries that nobody's ever heard of. you know, we don't do that in america. we don't punish people for providing water to people in line. that's the kind of stuff that we need to be front and center talking about as we go into 2022

we know that lifelong republican chris krebs said this was the most secure election in our country'sion dollar lawsuits for the lies that were told. but i wonder if any of that gets through to your constituents, to voters in michigan, or if the ex-president, donald trump, says it, they believe it. does anything interrupt that cycle? >> well, it's a little bit of both. i think there's a -- i mean, look, we're in a very divisive moment, and on one side, there are people who have unfortunately been deceived by people they trust, leaders who knowingly spread lies to further their own celebrity and gain power at the expense of citizens who are believing those lies. but we do have, in my view, and i recognize that the vast majority of people in our state and around the country believe in democracy, believe in the truth, are critical thinkers, and are part of an informed and engaged electorate who, you know, elected me in 2018 along with our governor and attorney general and who, you know, i hope will keep us all here for another term. but again, that's going to be the choice that voters ha

chris krebs is out there but there are no elected republicans -- mitt romney, the video of his life beingto save him, is nowhere in terms of calling out the illegality of donald trump and his entire inner circle. he could be on this show. he'd be welcome here any day of the week. where are the republicans who see those acts as illegal? as you just articulated. >> well, that's what's so horrifying is that they know that. i mean, richard burr and all of the people who are retiring, and that includes senator blunt, senator toomey, senator portman, i mean, there are many of them who could be standing up and saying, good lord, we don't want -- if joe biden loses an election, another january 6th in 2025 or we don't want the left to become violent and attack our government and try to overturn an election. we certainly don't want the democrats planning their own coup. but they're not. they knew, i think, that the president incited the insurrection and he deserved after being impeached to be convicted but not enough of them -- some of them did vote to convict, but not enough of them. and it really

that has routinely been debunked, an election called the most secure in our country's history by chris krebselong republican. a new book by two veteran journalists covers that time period where the president's legal team went on their mission, state by state by state to show how trump's team tried to discredit a free and fair u.s. election result and the unharolded local officials who defiantly stood up to donald trump to protect our nation's democracy. joining us now is mark bowden, contributing writer for "the atlantic" and matthew teague, contributor to "the atlantic" and "esquire," coauthors of "the steal." i saw both of you on "morning joe" and bought the book and said, i want to talk to them myself, and what's so important is that rightfully, we spend so much time on january 6th, but frankly, january 6th doesn't happen without the 5th, the 4th, the 3rd and every day from election day to it. talk about focuses on that period, mark. >> well, we felt that the riot on january 6th was what amounted to, frankly, a temper tantrum after all else failed. i mean, donald trump had mounted a conce