now, carrie sheffield, conservative commentator and national editor of "accuracy in media," and chris lu, former white house cabinet secretary under president obama. let me start with you, chris. we are in a confrontational crisis, jim clyburn said, if we're not in a constitutional crisis. but we're clearly where we have not seen this country before. you worked in the obama administration, cabinet level. what does this do to the rule of law and the regard of co-equals between executive, legislative, and judicial branches, when you have the executive branch down the line saying we're not going to comply with congressional requests even to the point of subpoenas? >> you framed this exactly right. this is about respect from one branch of government, the executive branch, for the other branches. in addition to what you mentioned at the outset, there's two other things i would put on the table. one is the president shifting money to fund a border wall that congress said he could not do. secondly, the president not defending the affordable care act, a duly passed law by congress in the federal

and lisa graves, chris lu, thank you both for joining us. when we come back, the court challenge to alabama's new abortion ban will begin immediately. former u.s. attorney joyce vance will join us with what happens next. also tonight, at the trump research administration ramps up hostilities with iran, president trump himself is reportedly in conflict with his advisers over what to do next with iran. if you have moderate to severe plaque psoriasis, every day can begin with flakes. it's a reminder of your struggles with psoriasis. but what if your psoriasis symptoms didn't follow you around? that's why there's ilumya. with just 2 doses, a majority of people were clear or almost clear. and over time, even more people were clear or almost clear. all with dosing 4 times a year... after 2 initial doses. plus, ilumya was shown to have similar risks of infections compared to placebo. don't use if you are allergic to ilumya or any of its ingredients. before starting treatment, your doctor should check for tuberculosis and infections. after checking

and lisa graves, chris lu, thank you both for joining us. when we come back, the court challenge to alabama's new abortion ban will begin immediately. former u.s. attorney joyce vance will join us with what happens next. also tonight, at the trump research administration ramps up hostilities with iran, president trump himself is reportedly in conflict with his advisers over what to do next with iran. s adve what to do next with iran. ♪ woman 1: this is my body of proof. man 1: proof of less joint pain and clearer skin. man 2: proof that i can fight psoriatic arthritis... woman 2: ...with humira. woman 3: humira targets and blocks a specific source of inflammation that contributes to both joint and skin symptoms. it's proven to help relieve pain, stop further irreversible joint damage and clear skin in many adults. humira is the number one prescribed biologic for psoriatic arthritis. announcer: humira can lower your ability to fight infections. serious and sometimes fatal infections, including tuberculosis, and cancers, including lymphoma, ha

. >> to you, chris lu. >> nothing is surprising.ate citizen, discredited the mueller investigation, said the president can't be guilty of obstruction of justice. what he's simply doing is troubling on so many levels. we know that the russians did interfere in the 2016 elections. they're going to do it in 2020. this week we learned two florida counties had their voter rolls hacked. when you have an attorney general who says i'm going to investigate the investigators, that does not send the right message at the time when we're trying to combat foreign election interference. >> all right. chris lu, charlie savage, joyce vance, thank you. we'll be right back. 'll be righ. (dad) nooooooo... (vo) quick, the quicker picker upper! bounty picks up messes quicker and is two times more absorbent. bounty, the quicker picker upper. i have heart disease, watch what i eat, take statins, but still struggle to lower my ldl bad cholesterol. which means a heart attack or stroke. could strike without warning, pulling me away from everything that matter

joining me now, chris lu and former prosecutor barrett berger. chris, let me start with you.e democrats smart to put their strategy -- to take it to the courts in this methodical way that nancy pelosi has? >> pelosi is smartly playing the long game here. she understands that trump is waging that multifront war. and there are just too many places for the documents to come out. not only with trump financial firms but very soon they will be able-to-get his tax returns from the new york state tax commissioner. former trump aides could be witnesses. rex tillerson did interviews. so they could talk. nancy pelosi can tamp down the talk about impeachment because she knows that block by block this lemm case for impeachment is being built. >> and from the perspective of a prosecutor, how did you see this playing out in the courts? are democrats doing everything right and do you see a victory for them down the line on these questions? or are they taking a big risk? >> well, the fact that they have now gotten two different strict court judges to issue rulings saying that their subpoenas

. >> chris lu, it's another personal attack, the likes of which we've seen time and time again by theonary, it might concern some, as we were talking about during the break, this could affect any number of people. it is the president targeting an individual. >> exactly right. the irony is it happens on the same week that his private attorney, rudy giuliani, was supposed to head to ukraine to try to open up an investigation of vice president biden. >> to meddle, meddling is okay in this -- >> giuliani said i'm going as a private citizen. he arguably would fall under the logan act, as well. exactly as the ambassador said. this is a diversionary effort. the president's effort to try to find a new relationship with iran after blowing up the iran nuclear deal failed. like his efforts come come up with trade -- efforts to come up with trade agreements after end tpp, as well. he thinks he can go after john kerry. as the ambassador said, two people have been indicted, and if you are going to start prosecuting, you would start with the trump folks. >> this was a conversation we were having abo