chris lu and david jolly, thank you.ou. >>> coming up next, democratic congressman jim clyburn of south carolina joinscl reverend al sharpton to talk all things impeachment ahead of a big week on b politics, on "politicsnati" right here on msnbc. n msnbc. pursuing life-changing cures in a country that fosters innovation here, they find breakthroughs... like a way to fight cancer by arming a patient's own t-cells... because it's not just about the next breakthrough... it's all the ones after that. the amount of student loan debt i have, i'm embarrassed to even say. we just decided we didn't want debt any longer. ♪ i didn't realize how easy investing could be. i'm picking companies that i believe in. ♪ i think sofi money is amazing. ♪ thank you sofi. sofi thank you, we love you. ♪ >>> and that does it for us this week. join me back here next saturday and sunday 4:00 p.m. eastern. see me on social media, facebook, insta gram. i'll get right back. let me know what you think. now i turn it over to reverend al sharpton and "po

i want to move to you, chris lu. just looking at the calendar, we have sondland on wednesday who's going to be on the hill. and then we move to the day before and we have williams and morrison as well. but gordon sondland now, because of the david holmes revelation, he's going to have some tough questions here. you would not necessarily want to be sondland on wednesday at 9:00 a.m., right, chris? >> ambassador sondland has some explaining to do. in his deposition he didn't recall a lot of details, he didn't give specifics. we now know from every other witness, that sondland really was the point person. he was the person that was giving out the instruction. he was part of three amigos we have from david holmes'. the sondland picking up the phone in a restaurant in kiev and getting the president of the united states on the phone and getting instructions from him, which is remarkable from a security perspective. but the fact that anyone can get the president on the cell phone is remarkable as well. so sondland is going

chris lu, he's a sort of politician that took away my big gulps and my straws. >> that's right. of the most titleist champions on issues like climate change and gun safety. he's probably one of the biggest furnishing in organizations and candidates on those causes which are two big priorities for democratic voters. in addition to his philanthropic work on public health or education reform. here's the thing, unlike billionaires like tom steyer or howard schultz, michael bloomberg has run for office before. so he knows what it's all about. he has a record of doing one of the toughest jobs in government, being the mayor of new york city. normally you would say money can't buy an election. it's about organization and message. but what's unique is not only the number of candidates bunched at the top of the democratic field, but the way the calendar is structured. once we get past the first four early states that, first super tuesday has california, texas, north carolina, massachusetts, virginia. it's going to be hard for any other candidates to go in there with much momentum, especia

joining us for a discussion now is chris lu who served as a senior aide to president obama.ore that he was chief counsel over the oversight committee. john heilemann is back with us. i have a congressional subpoena. i'm going to go bring a lawsuit to ask a judge what i do with it. >> i think it's fair to say none of this is on the level, lawrence. this is a case of mick mulvaney wanting to avoid being held in contempt of congress, wanting to delay the proceedings but only willing to abide by the court's ruling if it goes in his favor. what he's doing, really, is trying to eviscerate congressional oversight. during my eight years on the house oversight committee, part of it was during the clinton administration. we took depositions of senior clinton administration aides. when i managed president obama's candidate, hillary clinton testified about benghazi. so this idea that white house aides never testify is completely at odds with precedent. if it's taken to its logical extreme, it simply wipes out congress' ability to do any kind of oversight. and let's not forget the most i

and chris lu back with me. how does erasing student debt create a bump in the economy. of these people will have a lot more money, but think about what it costs. >> right, we'll you can think about it like a tax cut almost. the people will be paying debt service, paying back loans, average cost is $400 a month for the people that are paying student loans nap is money they no longer have to spend on that they could spend on something else and that depends ultimately on how the income bracket they're in, but that is a savings -- >> let's just forget all of my debts, if you're free of all of it, guess what i'm cash rich and out there spending. >> that would create a lot of problems for the economy and the lending, but this policy perspective is focused on student debt in particular. >> i think there is an issue. they engaged in a contract about what was entailed, and all of a sudden someone getting a fantastic wind fall, but no real limiting they operate where they are, and if it is simply a boost to the economy, you're injecting money into the economy, and you start to fo

. >> thank you, michael steele, former rnc chairman, chris lu, and now a senior fellow at the university of virginia miller center. and jeremy peters. he showed up last so he goes last, michael, we always heard all politics is local, so what gives? now it is about the president? >> it is he had numbers strong in connecticut. they boosted that turnout. he had some issues as governor of the state. you had a situation where the lieutenant governor is not carrying the water the way the party thought it would, so you have that juice of trump. virginia is a different race. they're looking to take the state legislature and they have a good opportunity to do that. but the republicans don't need to play the trump card in virginia because of the political dynamics in a state like virginia that is trender more blue. so it depends on where you in the mix here and trump, as we noted in that clip, it's all about him and at the end of the day that is good for him and the people that can pull him into the states. >> his platform is public education, health care, and trying to stop politics. >> the presi

joining me now, chris lu, former senior aide to president obama and a dnc superdelegate, and politicalthe president's trying to convince himself that the republicans are not going to abandon him. how do you read his approach at that rally? >> well, i think donald trump is doing what he always does, which is rallying the base. and if you watch, the base was thrilled. they agree with them, that they're not going to leave him through this impeachment process. but of course, those aren't the voters that the president needs to worry about. he needs to worry about those suburban women who might be getting a little bit frustrated with the president's approach and some of his tactics, but then again, of course, he'll be trying to sell his policies. as we know, at this point it doesn't look like senate republicans are going to be abandoning him, so it doesn't look like he's going to be removed from office. >> you don't think any of those republican senators are thinking about all that's being compiled, if you will, and that it's going to be hard to look at a stack of papers and facts and resear

chris lu and john heilemann, thank you both for joining us. >>> when we come back, republican chaos. that is what is planned for the public impeachment hearings, outright jim jordan-led chaos. >>> and later it's been the billionaires versus elizabeth warren, and those billionaires are worried about what she wants to do with taxation and other issues. but the current, this year's co-winner of the nobel prize in economics has much to say about that policy debate. she will join us at the end of this hour. this hour. lower my blood sugar and a1c. lower because i can still make my own insulin. and trulicity activates my body to release it like it's supposed to. trulicity is for people with type 2 diabetes. it's not insulin. i take it once a week. it starts acting in my body from the first dose. trulicity isn't for people with type 1 diabetes or diabetic ketoacidosis. don't take trulicity if you're allergic to it, you or your family have medullary thyroid cancer, or have multiple endocrine neoplasia syndrome type 2. stop trulicity and call your doctor right away if you have an allergic rea

chris lu is with us. and washington bureau chief for usa today susan page joins the table as well.s well. >> the public hearings begin tomorrow, but yesterday we got the latest testimony released in the impeachment inquiry. and building on the evidence that president trump sought political favors from ukraine in whi exchange for military aid. the administration directed them to freeze the aid over the summer. when officials learned about it, quote there are was not an understanding of how this could legally play out. she told lawmakers about a conversation about the then u.s. envoy to ukraine kurt volker that the aid would be released if they issued a statement disavowing any involvement. and captain kroft also released yesterday struck at the heart of the republican claim that there could not have been a quid pro quo because ukraine did not know that the aid was being withheld. cooper told lawmakers, quote, i know from my kurt volker conversation and also from sort of the alarm bells that were coming from ambassador william taylor and his team that there were ukrainians who knew a

lu lewandowski who -- >> chris, they couldn't even ask a question. >> let me talk about lewandowski., jimmy. you got lewandowski, you got ken starr, he got to do his whole report. is this fair or is this not compared to them? >> oh, yeah, more so. starr did it all in secret and then went to the senate. lewandowski was high-handed and arrogant when he was talking to the congressmen but when barry burke, a good lawyer, questioned him, he was quickly reduced to showing he was a liar. that's what it would be like in the house. you'd have competent, professional counsel questioning, that makes a big difference. that is what we had in watergate. >> well, in this case all we have is a rant in the first hearing. it's a democratic rant. >> you see no evidence? you see this as just a rant, jim? >> no, i'm talking about the judiciary committee. that first judiciary committee hearing was a joke. flat out. >> i'm not sure what you mean but here we have a real one. >> they couldn't ask a question. they couldn't ask a question. now we're going to come back after they've done all their work in the b