chris stirewalt is now the contributing editor for "the dispatch" and joins me now. went down. i wonder if arizona hadn't been called when you folks called it, how might that have bolstered trump and led to something else taking place on january 6th? >> well, you saw how miserable he looked when he came to the cameras that night because they -- and mark meadows admits as much in book excerpts that he's put out that this was a real shot. he was flabbergasted that my boss, bill salmon that we were not going to knuckle under to the criticisms about this because they wanted that narrative intact that night. and it's amazing to hear people say it out loud, right? it is now amazing to me to hear that this stuff is taken as normal by a pretty substantial wing of the republican party that they were trying to steal an election and they were frustrated by the fact that we wouldn't let them, and that's just -- it kind of gives you the chills a little bit. >> how would roger ailes have reacted to all this? >> you know, he was a very changed man by the end of the time that i knew