joining us now is maryland congressman chris van holland, top democrat on the budget committee with uspitol hill. good afternoon, sir. >> good afternoon, martin. >> congressman, with the nation still at war, with authorities currently investigating the latest mass shooting, can you, sir, think of anything more boneheaded, idiotic and self injurious than a threat to shut down every single federal agency from the pentagon to the fbi in less than two weeks' time? >> no, martin, i can't. and what makes it even worse is in addition to first threatening to shut down the government, they then said that two weeks later they're going to do the equivalent of shutting down the economy, because they're threatening that the united states of america will not pay its bills on time. they're threatening the full faith and credit of the united states government and saying, hey, you know what, it's okay to default on our debt. so first shut down the government with all the chaos that would create. and then, you know what, just for good order, they want to work to shut down the economy, if they don't get

support of members like myself because we don't want to get embroiled in another civil war. >> chris van hollandu, we were talking yesterday. he's put out a member letter, dear colleague letter which is talking about limits and making sure that there would be no boots on the ground. is that basically where you come down as well? >> it is. i think that we need a very narrow resolution, both in terms of limiting the time duration, limiting the focus on the term of the chemical weapons use, precluding any boots on the ground. all of that will be necessary not only to satisfy the congress but to satisfy the american people that we are not embarking on another war. there's just no appetite for that after iraq and afghanistan. >> secretary kerry got himself into a bit of a pickle yesterday at the hearing because he said now hypothetically he could imagine boots going on the ground if syria imploded and chemical stockpiles were at risk of going to al qaeda to front al qaeda supported groups. then perhaps special forces might go in. bob corker from tennessee jumped all over him. he said, wait a second,

one person who wants to keep the pretty sure on the syrian regime is chris van holland. >> the resolutionesident would be authorized to take very limited action if, number one, assad has not signed the convention or,Ñi number the president certifies there's no credible plan to put assad's chemical weapons stockpile under verifiable international control. >> the timing is under certain because they're waiting for the president to see how the diploma will work out so i asked a lot of senators what we're doing next? they say you tell us. >> trace: key fundraise, whether diplomacy works out. mike, thank you. on that notexd let's bring in pj crawly, formerÑi assistant secretary of state and from george washington university. atop jiz. great to see you. >> hi, trays. >> mikeÑi emanuel's point is go. the whole idea of the vote, it seems to be dead in the water because if in fact the diplomacy weeks, months down the line doesn't work it seems the president's not going to go back to congress to seem approval. we'll go in just on my approval. >> i'm not sure that's the case, trace. everyone will ta

we'll hear from republican congressman michael mccall, as well as democrat chris van holland tomorrowallace. check your local listings. >> arthel: the irs has said the targeting of conservative groups was not politically motivated. but newly revealed e-mails between the agency's former director of tax exempt organizations and her staff raise serious questions about that claim. carl cameron is in washington with the details. >> e-mails from lois lerner, the former irs director of exempt organizations, who invoked a right to avoid self incrimination rather than testify to congress suggests the irs's admitted targeting of conservative groups was political. in an e-mail from learner to a pair of irs colleagues in february of 2011 regarding outstanding requests by tea party groups for tax exempt status, learner wrote, quote, tea party matter, very dangerous. and said, the cincinnati office should probably not have these cases. the e-mails raised questions about learner's public claim when the scandal broke, but she was unaware groups were being targeted and claims by other irs officials wh

and fox news political analyst joins us, also doug howe and former communications director for chris van hollandk you both for coming on. here it is, another strategy on behalf of republicans to try to get democrats to come to terms with their beliefs, anyway. angela, some republicans believe this new strategy would actually force democrats to seriously consider delaying the implementation of obamacare. why stop there? why delay it or even threaten to defund it? why can't officials just fix it? >> that's what i would like, julie. in politics you have different strategies to bring people to the table, but the bottom line is this. obamacare is a train wreck. when you have unions saying if they don't get what they want, we should defund it. when you have businesses like delta airlines saying it would cost millions of dollars to implement, and i could go on and on. they should go into a room, the president, policy advisers, republicans and democrats should work to fix it. however, i like this strategy better, julie, than voting to defund it. my party has voted over 40 times to repeal it or defund it

chris van holland and michael mccall will discuss syria.falls of relying on russia, that is tomorrow on fox news sunday. >> the aren't investigation into the benghazi terror attacks has stalled is because the obama administration wants to treat it like a criminal proceeding and bring all of the accused into a federal courtroom. >> the administration's determination to prosecute the benghazi suspect in criminal court, also known as article iii court has thrown up roadblocks. >> treating this like a criminal event, using article three, which is what an american citizen would go through, with all the rights of the constitution, i think -- i don't know how anyone could come to the conclusion it hasn't slowed it down. >> based on intelligence reporting, the benghazi suspects have remained free. counter terrorism analysts say, the prosecution strategy has effectively pushed aside a military option. >> u.s. intelligence officials and/or war fighters are hand strung by enforcement models because there are a lot of guys who are known terrorists in t

chris van holland working on their own that would sharply limit what we would do over there. will probably bring it up to the full senate early next week. in the house, it is uncertain whether or not it would pass even though the speaker of the house, john boehner, and nancy pelosi signed off. >>gretchen: what's also interesting is i wish politicians would vote -- it is sad you have to say this -- vote about what they really feel and not who happens to be president of the united states now. and back when president bush was president the iraq thing was brewing as well. you don't vote yes to drop bombs or drones just because the president is a democrat or republican. that is upsetting to me that politicians might be in favor of it when their guy is in office but not when somebody else's and vice versa. >>brian: senator rand paul is going to be on later. he's voting against it. a no so far from senator leahy, a democrat, as it is currently constructed. you have the speaker of the house who fights the president on just about everything going along with it. if you voted for iraq,