pastor senn and chris voss as well.et us know what you think about this situation, how it went down @andersoncooper on twitter. witnessing this, going through it yourself. i'm going to be joined by katie beers who, you may remember, survived 17 days of underground cap acti captivity when she was a child. how do you keep an older car running like new? you ask a ford customer. when they tell you that you need your oil changed you got to bring it in. if your tires need to be rotated, you have to get that done as well. jackie, tell me why somebody should bring they're car here to the ford dealership for service instead of any one of those other places out there. they are going to take care of my car because this is where it came from. price is right no problem, they make you feel like you're a family. get a synthetic blend oil change, tire rotation and much more, $29.95 after $10.00 rebate. if you take care of your car your car will take care of you. to tell real people about our new 15 under $15 menu! oh my goodness... oh

chris voss is a former hostage negotiator. do you think that's fair that darkness was a concern here? >> the main concern in terms of darkness is whether they've got their inner perimeter established. they're more concerned about getting that. it's tougher when it's dark. that's the real concern. if they establish their perimeter they're prepared to deal with the darkness. they've got counterterrorism training. they can handle that but it was making sure their perimeters are established. >> we also have kyle martin. does it seem to you that the entire cabin is on fire? >> yeah, from what i can see right here, actually looks like maybe the barn is, too. there's a barn ten feet away from it. i can't quite tell, though. >> but it seems like the entire structure is in flames or has been. >> yeah, yeah. >> how big a structure is this, kyle? >> it's about 1800 square feet, i'd say. >> 1800 square feet. it's a one-level structure, then there's a basement foundation underneath? >> yeah, and an attic. >> an attic able to stand up in? >

chris voss is here with me. chris, you're a former lead negotiator for the fbi.heard this description, it looked like the situation was deteriorating, they thought the little boy was in danger, and at which point they went into action. >> absolutely. he made a telling remark. it's a negotiator's job to keep track of the let threat level. they're looking for specific words that might indicate whether it's going up or whether it's going down. clearly the negotiators had strong indicators the threat level was rising. >> because they thought that the kidnapper, jimmy lee dykes, had a weapon, that potentially he could have used against little ethan. >> absolutely. he was under threat at all times. he had a weapon inside there. it's a negotiate ernegotiator's figure out how far away he is from making a move against the hostage to kill a little boy. if they talk to him enough, they can get a pretty good idea when a threat level's rising. even a timetable that mr. dykes might have had for taking that action. they had to move in because there what an imminent threat. >> w

with me now is former fbi lead international hostage negotiator chris voss from d.c. rmer hostage negotiator scott wagner are with me here in new york city. chris, it is day five. what is taking so long? >> well, they have to show him that the they patient. i'm sure he has a vision of a possible negative outcome by authorities rushing in and attacking him or assaulting him in some way. they are reassuring him and showing him that they have all of the patience that is necessary. they will hear him out. the fact that he has taken all of the defensive measures and this is all about him being very defensive indicates that he would just as soon live if he could. and it is just a matter of them ultimately reassuring him and earning his trust so that he comes out. >> judge jeanine: we just heard scott from the reporter that this child is eating potato chips. i mean do we have any idea why this particular child? >> well, not that we have been made aware. we have the president has been kind of held at a standstill as to what has been going on. we do know that the individual has

now to chris voss, a hostage negotiator, former member of the fbi. s reporting there. it's day four, in a bunker with a 5-year-old boy. what does this tell you about how the talks are going, that we're in day four? >> at this point, they have taken it to the stage where they're probably feeling they're at a bit of an impasse. they have given him an opportunity to talk. they have a pretty good idea of what's on his mind. they're struggling now for the threads they're going to be looking for that will be the keys to getting him out of this. they have learned a lot about him. and they realize now the patience is still the key. they're searching, sitting through what he said to see what the thread is going to be to unravel this. >> as time goes by, what, from your experience, what are the chances that this story has a happy ending? >> well, the chances that it will have a happy ending are still very good. from what i can tell, i mean, i have been talking to people that are close to the scene. the threat level is not increasing. it's stable, and it's been

probably went down, a man with 24 years of experience as a hostage negotiator with us right now is chris vossne of the goals is to get a camera down there, get some eyes on the bunker. how would you do that? >> well, this is a couple of different ways they could do that, brian. they could have tried to run it down through the vent that they were talking through. it could have been something extremely tiny, as small as just a little wire. it's got a camera in it. they could have drilled it in through the outside and slowly made a pinhole entry somewhere in the wall. there is a variety of ways they could have gotten one in. >> brian: when one team is talking and negotiating, another team is working on a raid. correct? >> right. exactly. the tactical people come up with an emergency assault plan within an hour of arrival and then they spend every waking moment after that refining the plan and making it more effective. >> brian: we do have reports that they did go through the pipe, which is the same way they dropped the medication down and some supplies down. as one team planned the assault, the

. >> chris voss, former fbi lead international kidnapping negotiator, absolutely fascinating.hank you for talking with us. >> in the next hour, we'll talk to los angeles mayor antonia ville ra guessa and terry turchie will join us, he joined in the counterterrorism unit in the fbi. >>> president obama hits the road to rally public support for plans he spelled out in the state of the union address. last night he said congress must work with the white house to create jobs and grow the economy. >> most of us agree a plan to grow the economy must be part of the agenda. but deficit reduction alone is not an economic plan. a growing economy that creates good economic jobs must be the north star that guides our effort. >> marco rubio blasted the president's economic ideas. >> the idea more taxes and government spending is the best way to help hazard-working middle class taxpayers, that's an old idea that failed every time it's been tried. more government isn't going to help you get ahead. it's going to hold you back. more government isn't going to create more opportunities. it is goi