morgan stanley talking about expense reduction, chris whalen talks about asset shedding, the kind ofs you do and i don't want to get into the lazard business relationships, but in 2015, to receipt expense reduction or do we see -- do we see a expense reduction or making to downsize? >> yes. uni when we have spoken in the past few years ago, i use the term, a darwinian exercise. what is fascinating is how slowly it is going. it seems obvious with the regulators increasing the capital requirements, with the burden of regulation, with the charges particularly for systemic important institutions, a lot of these banks ought to cut back lines of business -- number of executives say to me well, i'm in better shape than others are, they will leave the business first. and when they leave there will be a concentration of power and we will get our profitability back. that is why i use darwinian. >> the executive pushing the board aside and saying, we're comfortable with the present state. where is carl icahn to tell us to do something? >> somewhere along the way, or even some of the global inve