who are again christianity was in palestine and now. we are going to end up with very little christians there because of this meddling because of this. scaremongering because of the intervention and because of the division we are trying to play if you look at the french and here in britain the idea that somehow we can assist we can decide which party we we what we agree with which one we don't it doesn't matter whether they're out of muslims or christians or whatever but basically it's politics that is being played with the lives of the people and i think this is this is a disgrace and it's a pity now what do you think about that because you know again it on a stick with the secular regimes ok iraq it was a secular regime ok under khadafi it was nominally secular as well and now we have these these are both countries where you have fundamentalism and radicalism. after interventions. yes absolutely right and i'm not going to be arguing in favor of intervening but i think while it's obvious that western front policy has something to play

across the christians in the arab world. i'm joined by michael model from washington he's a senior reporter for the world net daily and a former analyst for the defense department also in washington we have matthew feeney he's an assistant editor at reason twenty four seven and in london we crossed the top he is the president of arab lawyers association in the u.k. our gentlemen cross-talk rosen if i think you can jump in anytime you want michael can you just give us a broad stroke history of what's happened to the questions and in the middle east over the last century will focus the last ten years later go ahead well i think the christians generally have been in decline at one time they were particularly in lebanon for example they were the majority today they are not only a minority they are also very fractured and i think that we see that christians generally are we've seen it also in iraq where they they've had a tremendous exit over over a period of time due to war and do all of the conditions that you mentioned through

i mean, this man has brought other muslims to the christian faith and the christian baptism. mean, if he is a fraud, he is a very bad one because he is bringing people to christian faith. but, still, they denied him. that made me look into what is going on? >> reporter: what is going on? ab corg taccording to a swedish lawyer is a badly run asylum process and in some cases, anti-christian bias. >> when you apply for asylum, you have to present your case. if you claim you're a convert, you have to show some evidence of having been converted, certificate of baptism, or membership in a congregation. >> reporter: but donnor says that crucial evidence is often missing from asylum applications because too many state-appointed lawyers don't include it. ben spends his time trying to rescue christian asylum-seekers. >> about every week five or six churches call me and say these people who come to church, they are real converts. they are members in our church, but the immigration board, they don't believe they are christians. what shall we do? >> reporter: but raza's case has a happy e

they are not christians first people in a turbulent area the westerners tend to think about christianity as if it's a western religion and there are some of the arabs who have taken. christianity as a religion they forget that jesus was a not a he was the abraham was born in iraq but the turbulent situation there principly the political situation and most certainly the external factor the biggest disaster for instance was the two thousand and three invasion of iraq by the us and europe which caused the decline of not just only the christians but you have almost four million iraqis outside the country as far as the christians are concerned almost fifty percent of the iraqi christians have escaped western embassies tend to give exit visas or entry visa to their countries if they are christians they would give them more readily and these are all factors that affect the situation when you look at the christians say in palestine you find the israeli policy of discrimination against the christians is a major cause to the extent that for instance. who is a palestinian archbishop was that he was

what does he believe, and what will the impact be on christians? >> wendy: plus, secret believers, christians from several nations the former soviet union came together recently. we were there to witness this once in a lifetime event. >> george: and she truly is the blind leading the blind. but this christian woman is helping muslim children overcome their disabilities and live their lives to the fullest. >> george: historic, the islamic republic of iran has a new president. hello, everyone, i'm george thomas. >> wendy: and i'm wendy griffith. after eight turbulant years of makmud ahmadinejad, iran has a new president. his name is haseed ruwan assa assani. >> reporter: iran noos new leader is western educated, with a long resume in iran's revolution. he presents a softer image. his election led some western elections to brand him a moderate, who can change iran. hebrew university professor moshi says he differs from macmoud in a few ways. >> this nice-looking man, has a fatherly face, and speaks the right language -- speaks the language he knows th

i got a christian! it was clear that intolerance towards christians is a huge problem in his mind, and though there are countless actual examples of appalling intolerance against homosexuals, that's missing the real story. >> the reverse happens as well. where homosexual goes out and find straights to beat up. >> really? >> yeah. >> are you sure about that? >> these kinds of events are not publicized very well. why is this not being covered? >> yes, why is this hypothetical violence not being covered or recorded or even occurring? maybe it's because the figures are being hushed up by the homosexual industrial complex. >> how come the homosexuals aren't defending us christians with our right to be able to express ourselves. >> at what point has your right to express yourself been infringed upon? >> ( laughter ) >> don't know if it's going to happen, but i'm concerned about it. i have a radio show. i'm just concerned about any oppression that may come. >> sure. >> that people might say, "matt, you can't s

after all was noted our laws custom literature no more to the gao christianity than any other single tradition. that is one reason why all of us believers or agnostics or atheist have a board interest to figure out of this puzzle all of western secularization because we carry remnants of the judeo-christian tradition inside is if we want to or not it is part of what you call the individual cultural dna. once upon a time of what was called kristin dumb their judeo-christian cody tilled the details of daily life in tel don to dusk not to mention birth marriage and death and other milestones obviously this is true no more for many modern western people a growing number of us agreed the milestones was no religious free market of many are born without baptize to have children without being married. some have a civil marriages -- civil instead of religious. mini it died via -- our bodies are incinerated rather than prayed over the ground as was commanded this is a few examples of the sea change known as secularization. how did it happen aha? how did they go from societies negative afeard g

targeted christian groups and the h.s.s.irth control mandate are examples of the dangers that the road america is travelling on. >> i never would have believed in my generation i would see this taking place. so silence is not an option. today's complacency will lead to tomorrow's captivity. and religious freedom stands as the womb by which all of the other liberties emerge and flurry rish. >> george: he says the u.s. government needs to be reminded that it may be our earthly uncle, but he is not and never will be our heavenly father. >> wendy: in belgium, controversy over a researcher fired for being too religious. the school that fired him, an historically catholic university. dale hurd has that story from the city of luven. >> reporter: the catholic university of luven is the oldest and largest university in belgium. it was founded in the 1400s under the approval of the vatican. but as modern europe has secularrized, so thas the university. >> people can believe a lot of things and not get fired from their jobs, but as a s

similarly, christian the stars with the birth of a baby. it starts with this act on the part of the baby's mother of saying god be with me as he will. abject obedience. after 1973 we live in a world where every birth is negotiable, write? so of course people are less likely to understand what is some reckless about subversive of the christian story, similarly, a world of prominent birthrate is a world where many people grow to adulthood never having held a baby. if it is if that is your experience it might be hard to understand what a summer i just about the idea of god coming into the world as a baby. so in all these ways i think it's important to lay out kind of new anthropology of belief, because that way we can speak more clearly what can in a way of people approaching the christian church but it is not what conventional three says. it is not inevitable cyclization, inevitable rationalism. it's not what the new atheists said. it's not the just people get smarter and come to their senses. there's something else going on and his family st

christian homes are set on fire and bombs are placed on cars and christian families are receiving threatening letters, to leave iraq or be kidnapped and killed. american soldiers have risked their lives for the sake of the country's liberation. our young men and women have fought for a noble cause but the unintended consequences is under fit -- unforgivable. no amount of money will make them our true allies. they are not allies of israel and i fear one day, your money, our money, will be used against israel. it makes no sense. should we be staying at sending f-16's and tanks to egypt when president morsi stands up and says jews are descendents of pigs and dogs? i say no more f-16s, no more tax, no more money to egypt until they pledge and recognize publicly the right of israel to exist. [applause] in egypt, costa christians, shop owners, they sell icons and statues, they received threatening letters. islamic hangs kidnapped christians. chanting been seen amen to the destruction of israel. he did not just stand by, he seemed to be saying, amen, amen, to destruction of israel. i cannot imagine

christianity and islam. both of these religions had to explain how they were related to, but different from the judaism with which they claimed relations but also claimed to have some sense that superseded. in order to do this they had to think constantly about their relationship to the old testament and to the jews who were its carriers in their society. and we can see this thinking goes on in all of the scriptures of the new religion. so in the new testament, one of my favorite examples in the new testament is the reason jesus on the road to emmaus. you know the story of two disciples are working on the road to emmaus and they're very sad because they have thought that jesus was the massage. they're talking to each other on the road, [inaudible] but they weren't going. they're going for consolation. and a third figure approaches him, a stranger, and ask them why they're on the path? have you not heard, ha have yout heard of this person who was crucified? we have thought he would be the savior of israel. th

but i'm a devito christian who christian who does not like prayer in the school. when i was in third grade i was forced to go for six months to a regular public school and i suggest that we say a hail mary once in a while. i was so bullied and beat up that when the supreme court announced that we would have no more prayer i rejoiced because i say you want a prayer, whose prayer will it be for 6, 7, and 8-year-old kids? thank you. guest: that's a very good point and the suffering is intense and it sounds in your voice that you still remember it quite clearly and that is one of the main reasons that we don't have school-sponsored prayer because whose prayer will it be? we're a very religiously diverse country. even within christianity, there are a lot of differences. so that's a very important point. and i think that if people realize that, in fact, the next person who's saying that prayer could, in fact, be saying something that would really upset them, they might not like it so much. thank you for your call. that's a good comment. host: another image in the piece

what would you call it, the christian agenda? guess: you know, it's -- i mean in a way -- i can certainly see where you're coming from and how upped think that. i think that the teaching about religion is really about world religion and understanding different point of views and different faiths and that really enriches a curriculum and is not a way of injecting a particular face or a particular religious point of view into sort of an indoctrination. it is not that at all. there is also the issue that there are a lot of people of faith and so to deny them the right to come to the public square, which is school is part of, and not be wholey who they are is problematic. so we could look at the public school as a perfect ground to learn how to do that and to learn how to do that well and respectfully with curiosity about one another as opposed to wanting to make somebody else believe what we do. you know, and it's tricky. which e of a faith really your mandate is to evangelize and to bring others to your point of view or to express

-- is a deeply held christian notion. we're not going to agree on everything about how to get there, but i think the basic value structures are there, which is one of the reasons why evangelical christians are among those calling most loudly for immigration reform. >> before becoming a theologian, moore worked for conservative mississippi democratic congressman gene taylor, and in kentucky, he was a registered independent. he says evangelicals should be careful about being identified with partisan politics. >> we work with people of good will that we can work with across the spectrum, but we do so with a certain sense of prophetic distance. we don't belong to anyone's political party. we don't belong to anyone's organization, and so we ought to have the freedom then to speak prophetically, to both parties and to all parties. >> he's convinced that christians have a religious obligation to speak up on moral issues. >> if in 1925 alabama you're not addressing the question of lynching, then you're not dealing with sin. and y

in pakistan, a christian sits on death row.crime is that she dared to drink from a class that belongs to a muslim coworker. she says that she insulted the profit. in our country we refer to this as gossip and it would get nowhere. but this christian is now sitting on death row. recently in pakistan, a 12-year-old girl was imprisoned and charged with a death penalty crime for burning the koran. she was released after stripping the pages of this book into the fire and trying to accuse this little girl. this individual is not a christian, but is in prison and 10 imprisoned by pakistan. and she was tortured and held without charge for nearly a year. he was finally in prison likely for the rest of his life. i have met with the ambassador from pakistan to argue for his release and they will not touch it. you and i are forced to send billions of dollars to pakistan every year. 90% are off aid to pakistan. my bill said that libya and egypt and pakistan would get no more foreign aid for the u.s. perry must be turned over the assassins t

really it's only christianity and judy is on. -- judaism. in the eastern traditions the trek is to banish, have reincarnation but enlightenment means you won't be reincarnated you will be somewhere you can't know and there is very little about the afterlife and the bible actually putting it is a leader idea. when paul asked what happened to the faithful when they die said i have not seen a comet year hasn't heard or has it entered into the hearts of the man what god has prepared for those who love him and that is if it is good enough for st. paul it's good enough for me. my feeling is what we have is now. this moment is all we are certain of having and so to live as full and kindly and creatively as you can in that moment i think constitutes a kind of immortality. >> host: some of the names of karen armstrong's books include quote co-pays for god, the history of god, faith after september 11th and the bible, a biography," going into the history of god has mankind always had a spark of thinking there is a higher power? >> guest: a higher powe

it's much worse for christians today.ed out, the very insurgents that our government is thinking about supporting are the ones killing christians in syria. >> megyn: embassy bolton, why are the numbers shift to go dramatically? >> i think the wave of islam i can fundamentalism through the region is having impact. the comparison in egypt is particularly acute. i've seen figures over 100,000 cop tic christians having fled from egypt and that number is a year old. my guess is it's much higher. the difference from the mew mubarak era could not be more clear. >> galilee was accepted at u.s. secretary general. >> you say we're witnesses to murder and our governments are accomplices. what do you mean? >> look at the way washington falls all over itself to please the worst elements among american elements, saudi funded elements and at the same time will not stick up for christians being murdered or driven out, most of the suezo jews have been driven out and it's a terrible double standard. the same rules should apply to muslims,

he says the christian community thinks this. the christian family association thinks that. and christians like eugene robinson, john shore, my mom i call them not all like that christians because when you go on tv and you argue with tony perkins, you get a lot of e-mails saying you need to know we're not all like that. tell tony perkins. >> john: as do all of the home poe phobe followers. i wanted to briefly touch on something i think is political which you've talked about in your new book. your newest word, the next santorum monogomich. there are six species of mammals that mate for life. you've been making the rounds talking about this a lot lately. how would you define monogomich. >> it was a description with my husband, terry. we're much more monogamous than not and we're monogomich. a little squish around the edges. that allows us to stay together, stay happy and stay monogamous. the term has been adopted by a lot of straight people, a lot of straight couples. you see monogomich among straight couples. we have an understanding that you know, we're socially monogamous,

the number of christian martyrs in russia alone far surpasses the first millennia of martyrs in christian history. we understand the message and we are beginning to see the signals again -- know your place. we recognize that we can be useful at certain points. stalin found us useful to rally the russian people in the second world war. when our usefulness was over, back we went to being an underground church and the persecutions became more and more severe, peaking under the khrushchev era. many of us sitting here all praised and rejoiced at the way that john paul the great, ronald in reagan, and margaret thatcher helped to bring down communism. what we do not know is the role and that the christian church played. in 1988, it was the millennial year. mikhail gorbachev and all those things were at play and decided in it would be a good thing to lift the lid off at least for one year. guess what -- it was not going back. this is not ancient history for us. this is very recent history. only since the early 1990's have a we christians been able to find our voice once again and become players.

christian, not guilty. not guilty? murder/robbery trial? this is unheard of. now i got all these cases, i'm washed. >>> coming up, christian does the unthinkable. >> believe me when i say, that was the hardest thing i've ever done in my life. >> a street gang terrorizes the yards of corcoran. for our families... our neighbors... and our communities... america's beverage companies have created... a wide range of new choices. developing smaller portion sizes and more.. low and no-calorie beverages... adding clear calorie labels so you know... exactly what you're choosing... and in schools, replacing full-calorie soft drinks... with lower-calorie options. with more choices and fewer calories... america's beverage companies are delivering. >>> corcoran shu is home to the worst inmates in california. the level one yard is the polar opposite. >> we have a facility which provides support to this prison and the prison next door, as far as a workforce. >> the yard is free of any cages. there are no cells and more activities. >> get up about 6:00 in the morning, go eat,

muslims are working more energetically than christians or jews. past to be said. the largest organization in the u.s.a. and canada as of last september introducing compassion into their own schools, training the leaders of tomorrow, setting up mosques said are gender friendly andy friendly and discussion of communities no religion is perfect. we all have the malcontent and the criminals. and the sooner we separate the criminals and also see where they're coming from. not just a few from islam. they have been doing this for the last 1500 years. where in fact, islam has a better record -- a better record than western christianity over the last 100 years. and the disruption of colonialism with these unfortunate moments have arisen. but to be appalled by the events of september 11th as are we. >> host: three final questions. >> guest: if people wish to contact you do you have a web site? >> the best place is to go to. [inaudible] >> host: the professor has been part of the series year end 2011 and i take on the bible but he said in his interview he has friends in high

and asked if the goal of christianity was to be christian-like, wouldn't jesus have kicked out the boy scouts? >> trying to be christ-like is a challenge today. i think about when some guys tried to trick jesus up.

first, the conventional story line does not describe the reality of christianity persistence in the world for american sociologists rodney start to is a contrary and wrote a lively as say that is a classic called secularization rest in peace and open with an entertaining review of predictions of the demise of the christian faith going back through 1660 up through the present day including but not limited to secular profits as frederick the

she is steering germany. >> the christian democrats campaign focuses. they're convinced with her in charge, they will win the election. maybe it is her current popularity in the polls that are keeping in party criticism of policies to a minimum. they have been a member for nearly 70 years. he agrees with merkel that the conservatives have to reflect a change in germany. >> that is a real advantage for the party. that means they are forced to keep re-examining things and adopting different views. >> her popularity has given the cdu a mighty bump in the polls, the christian democrats still have to convince them that they can go hand-in-hand. >> wimbledon has had its first upset. 7664 was the score. it is the first time they have ever lost in the grand slam tournament. >> some soccer news now. germany has officially unveiled their man at the top. the new coach said it was not only a pleasure put a it to be there. the last post was at barcelona, the dominant force in football. >> the new coach has finally arrived. they spoke to 240 journalists. like a lot o

she is steering germany. >> the christian democrats campaign focuses. they're convinced with her in charge, they will win the election. maybe it is her current popularity in the polls that are keeping in party criticism of policies to a minimum. they have been a member for nearly 70 years. he agrees with merkel that the conservatives have to reflect a change in germany. >> that is a real advantage for the party. that means they are forced to keep re-examining things and adopting different views. >> her popularity has given the cdu a mighty bump in the polls, the christian democrats still have to convince them that they can go hand-in-hand. >> wimbledon has had its first upset. 7664 was the score. it is the first time they have ever lost in the grand slam tournament. >> some soccer news now. germany has officially unveiled their man at the top. the new coach said it was not only a pleasure put a it to be there. the last post was at barcelona, the dominant force in football. >> the new coach has finally arrived. they spoke to 240 journalists. like a lot o

. >>> exodus international has been a controversial christian group that promoted repairive therapy to try to change the sexual orientation of gays. but now, exodus has announced it is closing, and launching a new ministry, instead, to help churches host thoughtful and safe conversations about sexuality. exodus' president allen chambers issued an open apology to gays and lesbians for, quote, years of undue suffering and judgment at the hands of exodus. he acknowledged that had pushed many people against faith. however, chambers said he would not apologize for his continued beliefs about what he called the scriptural boundaries surrounding sex. >>> next week, the u.s. supreme court is expected to hand down several decisions sure to be controversial, not least in the religious community. one is on the validity of gay marriage. another is affirmative action in college admissions. should the race of an applicant be a consideration? tim o'brien has a preview. >> reporter: the case was brought by abigail fisher, who claimed she was denied admission to the university of texas at austin becaus

>> [laughing] >> joyce: well, that's what happens with christians. "oh, i'm a christian.got a bumper sticker. i've got a jesus pin. i've got a tape recorder. i say hallelujah, praise the lord. thank you, jesus. i cast out devils. whoa-ho. i'm a christian." yeah, well, where's your fruit? you're known by your fruit. are you helping anybody? are you patient? are you loving people? are you a giver? are you quick to apologize? are you gentle? are you faithful? are you sticking with something and refusing to give up on anything? how do you treat people? those are the things that are important to god. somebody say, amen. >> audience: amen. >> joyce: all right, let's look at some gifts for a minute. 1 corinthians 12. "now about the spiritual gifts (the special endowments of supernatural energy), brethren, i do not want you to be misinformed." so god wants us to be educated about the gifts of the spirit. how many of you really have never heard that much about the gifts of the spirit? let's see your hand if you've never heard all that much about the gifts of the spirit? okay, well

a christian cannot support what is attacking god. i'm sorry you got to find some other coffee to drink. you can't drink starbucks and be bibleically right on this thing. cenk: so starbucks is bibleically wrong. i'll get to that in a minute. i'm going to quote the bible at pastor barton here, because there's a dump starbucks website. it was started back in 2012. it's been going splendidly so far. you can see starbucks is almost out of business. now that teaparty.net has joined in, they have 1.4 million likes on his page, like when newt gingrich had his and it turned out 98% were from india. in so, is this a real movement, can it cause starbucks trouble? let's bring in our pan yell, all from huffing to know post. nick, let me start with you on this. what is the percentage chance that this boy cat will work? go. >> i'd say definitely zero. let's start out by noting that david barton is a man that glenn beck has called one of the most important people or most important voices in america, so there's something to start with when you consid

you ask them, are you a christian? yes. are you an obedient christian? yes. they can name you all the things they do partially. or sort of. or sometimes. but obedience says, i do what he says, when he says, for whatever reason he says, what he says, with whom if someone else is involved. but i see so many christians who really believe they're walking in the spirit of god who are allowing things in their life that are absolutely not of god, could not possibly be of god. and they rationalize it. and rationalization, that's satan's attempt to keep you off base in your relationship to him. if i want god's best in my life, i must be obedient to him. and if you'll think about how wise that is, god who is omniscient, omnipresent, knowing all things. loves us perfectly and he's given us a course to live, you can't improve on his course. in other words, he has the best plan for every single one of us. he has the best answer for every question we ask. listen. he has the best of everything if we'll follow him. how do we follow him? we obey him. or we don't obey him. for

christian values going to these christian places to speak -- when people speak, they forget what they say in public. i actually have a tape of him saying that. i am a christian. , and he loves us all. and to speak at these events to people who say they are christian, but they hate other people -- host: so -- guest: i think what she is referring to is rand paul's comments about the civil rights act in 1954. this is where you going to run into problems. in fairness to paul, i think what he said was very nuanced, and i do not want to misrepresent it, but i think essentially what he was saying is i hate this permission, i hate racism, but if somebody is stupid enough, they own a business, it is there property, if they are stupid enough to want to say i want to serve this type of customer, they own it, that is their business, somebody else will serve a customer and make that money. i think when he is basically saying is the invisible hand of the free market, left alone, would fix these things, and i government is 9200. it is not many he is a racist or but thatupports that, is his point. gi

lee lawrence writes for the christian science monitor. piece looking at the about prayer in schools. who was on the court 50 years make the y did they decisions that they rendered? guest: they made the decisions based on history, on the fact the founding fathers had to the new world to escape government imposed religion, to have religious freedom. protected hat it religion not to have the government too involved or involved at all. hey felt that -- and they felt these kinds of prayers did in fact do that. countered the notion that religion stablishing as secularism. to felt the government had be neutral and to be neutral was not to be sponsoring it. was in fact -- some historians have arced -- argued quite effectively this was a progression. 1890's.started in the there was a case of a bible in wisconsin and they bible ing the king james and some roman catholic families bjected and it was deemed in 1890 that this brought civil authority and religion too close together. so, they ruled against it. so, there was a progression on a more secula

what does that have to do with every christian or foe meanting hatred towards christians. >> the wayho sell the idea of being a christian versus acting it out. and if you think there's no difference -- if you think that everybody who says they are christian, who calls themselves christian and has every right to just behave anyway they want without criticism -- >> caller: hal -- >> is that what you are saying? then you are saying the ku klux klan has as much validity as any other christian. >> caller: what i'm saying [ inaudible ] spirits to make sure they are of god. there are all these ways of self examining, and you have a hundred percent right to say god told me to buy a $300,000 car and not pay my mortgage. but the woman who called in and said i believe in science -- >> that is her opinion. >> she has the right to it. >> absolutely. just as much as you have the right to believe whatever you want. >> caller: can i speak? >> no, you apparently can't. he is just talking in circles. >> he is bashing -- i hate the word bashing being thrown around -- >> the plan to send all christians

christiane amanpour joining us now. also is professor fouad ajami, senior fellow at stanford university. you've been talking to turkish officials all day. what do you make of this? >> well, i think there's obviously one huge question, i mean, to state the obvious, how is this going to end? all sides have their backs to the wall. there's no sense of how there's going to be any kind of common ground reached. prime minister erdogan started all of this -- not started all of it, but once it started, started calling them rift raft and now he's trying to make a distinction between legitimate protesters and vandals. there's going to be a meeting tomorrow, but now what i'm told is this is going to be a singer, artist and actor, people close to the government, that have nothing to do with the protesters. how is that going to change? what i was also told by a chief adviser to prime minister erdogan this evening, there are designated areas of protest, gezi park where people are reporting from, i was told is going to remain a protes

[laughter] >> but orthodox christians in very recent history with that group of christians from around the world have suffered under republican and democratic administrations and orthodox christianity eastern orthodox suffered enormously in iraq after u.s. invasion of the bush administration in. also that christian body which suffered enormously in egypt, and nearly 10% and their plight is hardly known in the american public. we have to missionary's son were kidnapped six weeks ago in syria and most americans would hardly know their story. but to ask a question why is this group almost invisible in our american understanding of christianity in light of what they have suffered a religious liberty? we have a church the west has forgotten the yet to we are here and i will share with you today the institutional memory that is important because the orthodox christians are like canaries in to the mind that they start to do show a little stressed that is a signal to pay attention and orthodox christianity is showing the stress science. the other speakers today have been indicating this is a t

and i think therefore this conversation is critical, because in christian theology, res resurection follows we begin to talk about the role of the black churches in the very life of communities. we need to understand that african-american communities are dynamic, that they're complex, and that that complexity reflects in very interesting ways the material conditions under which black folk are -- >> well but i mean jay-z is not representative of an institution. barack obama is catching hell today -- >> it's not an institution? >> it's not a viable and it's not an institution that's capable of producing anything. [ overlapping speakers >> some would argue that the same way that 2004 allowed black churches to deliver george bush the hiphop generation helped deliver barack obama in 2008. the same type of institution. >> dr. glove, does the black church, do black teachers still have the sway they had 50, 60 years ago? >> some do. part of it has to do with this very complex field in which black churches exist in now. it's not like the only game in town. like it used to be back in the day back on

>> again, trying to appeal to the new generation of christians and rebrand themselves. they're trying to say this new ministry they're set to launch will be more open, more welcoming. and they won't be so -- such a hard stance, hard line on their stance on homosexuality. >> eric, you cover religion and faith in deep detail here. is this a trend? do we think this is something that more groups are going to do? i mean, kind of get rid of this conversion therapy, this so-called conversion therapy they say? >> absolutely, suzanne. conversion therapy with evangelicals is very much out of vogue right now. you even saw exodus stop doing it. groups like exodus are much less part of the mainstream. and the big issue is here there's been a change in the last five to ten years with the issue of sexual orientation. for years we heard christians say sexual orientation was a chose, people chose to be gay. that is language you do not hear anymore. and it's more or less disavowed. now they say orientation is something you're born with and it's something your behavior is the issue. what