joe paterno at all costs. so culture is what we make it. so blaming the locker room is not appropriate, but christine, are you really surprised to hear that trash talk like this, and mean i'm some bullying and hazing goes on? i've been around, you've seen it. >> absolutely. i've been in locker rooms where it's happened to me, covering the washington team in the '80s. i think journalists get -- i think one of the things we're getting from the story is so much we don't know. it will come out, the nfl is investigating that, that's a good thing. i absolutely agree that the locker room is different from the street corner or school yard, but you made a good point that the nose is setting the tone, the nfl's most popular league in the country, certainly or national pastime, 40% of the fans of the nfl are women. it is very important that the nfl come into the 21st century. i do believe it's something that should be a watershed moment. some people are afraid if you go too far the other direction, you'll have teams that can't win. do you think that players making the carry their shoulder pads, is that hazing? >> no, it is not. whatti. >> what about extra