world issues, and how to solve certain crises and at this dinner, hillary clinton spoke with christo grozev of the online investigators helen cat and it was there that they came up with the idea informally to talk about the potential swap deal to release alexey navalny's from prison. now, the shuttling back and forth took place for two years and the various constructions of how the deal came about, the constellations, who would it? oh, how many prisoners would involve americans took place over a period of time. but after the dinner, hillary clinton took it to her friend and former colleague, who is now the national security adviser, jake sullivan, who then ran it up the chain to the state department. all of this based on conversations that we've had with sources who've told us that over the course of those two years, back, channels then between towards the kremlin were trying to be made, contact was trying to be made to the russian president. but as one source told us, everybody who tried to communicate the message, quote, unquote chickened out at the last minute, which is then rosemary whe