and, christopher duntsch, he was an obvious outlier. the vast majority of surgeons are good, capable people who care about their patients. he was an outlier. [laughs] thank you.t -- they are great. but it was of course you that worked out that the medical error is the third leading cause of death in the united states. so, there are a lot of great doctors as a whole. we are not trying to malign the profession. figure out why as journalists and as public intellectuals, we cannot somehow get the system whatever that is to respond in a useful way. you do not need to defend, we get it. we all have doctors that we like, trust, and respect. do not undercut your own work. laura: i did make a decision that i was going to assume that people were starting from ground zero. but, telling a podcast, i started listening to a lot of podcasts after i got the assignment. i did not have a lot of the tools that other journalists telling stories have. for example, there were not going to be any plot twists. the guy who you think is guilty, he really was gui