and all of this is connected. >> guest: well, what was interesting is chuck colson reported his reaction, nixon's reaction that first weekend which i think is true that nixon was wise enough to walk it back and colson who only colson could quote himself as hearsay said he couldn't remember what nixon had told him that weekend when they talked, the weekend of the 18th and 19th of june of 1972. but he did know what his staff had told him. he had told them so that immediately made it in admissible hearsay he told his staff that nixon would have been so angry to learn that the committee was involved in this he would have thrown an ashtray across the room. that isn't a surprising reaction. >> host: did nixon know about the watergate burglary on june 171972? >> guest: i don't think so. >> host: did he know about the aberrations when they went in a month earlier to plant that. >> guest: i don't think so but i do think, here's what you should think bob. had they not been our west -- arrested at the watergate they were headed for mcgovern's headquarters on capitol hill and if they had been arrest

even what we know now and what is added in your book -- the idea that a presidential aide like chuck colson comes in and says i blackmailed and did all these things and the president goes -- >> guest: let me ask you this. i thought you might in particular find the story of ron ziegler, whose tale has never been told. ron never wrote the book he hoped to write. never gave an oral history to the nixon library. he died relatively young, and the only record we have of ron now is in these tapes, and he plays a very significant role. he actually becomes and fulfills the role that haldeman had as a sounding board as this presidency progresses when haldeman leaves. has an enormous influence -- >> host: in the final days. it was haig, the new chief of staff, and siegler, who really kind of were the ones who went to nixon and listened to him in tried to manage all of this. i think there's no doubt that is true, but no one ever established that siegler had primary knowledge, first-hand knowledge of a crime himself, other than what he heard from nixon and haldeman and ehrlichman. and you. >> guest: cou

when that message came through chuck colson recorded it, i said we are obstructing justice. there are interesting tapes where i have raised this with ererlichman. haldemann, that shows you how far off the reservation dean has fallen. i was right on all of those. >> political battle coverups were somehow fair game? >> no, they were looking at particularly ehrlichman, being a lawyer, a good intent good motive doesn't make anything less criminal if you commit the criminal act doesn't matter what your motive is. >> of course, from many questions that have been asked over the years why denied nixon throw everybody under the bus from the beginning because then he might have avoided getting into trouble himself and also aside from getting rid of the people the question is why didn't he get rid of the tapes, he got rid of 18 minutes of them that were erased. you have a whole appendix that deals with the eeras eraseure. >> i don't think people could have had access not so important the who as the what. i understand why it had become an issue with the media. he promised he would do ce

on walter cronkite, and pointed me in the right direction of a conversation between nixon and chuck colson regarding con cry. as we got to know each other, become friends, the idea was, look, this stuff is just unbelievable. luke has a better access to this material and understands it. he can actually hear the voices in the room. it's tough going for a lot of people. i talked to bob, my friend the other day, and he said, boy, i couldn't listen to the tapes long, so he just have to really strain, but luke has it down to an art form. we collaborated and tried to bring up what's the most important from the tapes, not watergate-related, what else can we learn, particularly u.s. foreign policy? that's what nixon cared about the most. host: and this is nearly 800 pages of two years of tapes. one thing i noticed is president nixon interrupts a lot. guest: all the time. he never lets anybody finish a sentence. nobody ever stands up to him. i mean, actually, henry kissinger is the one who comes out badly in this book, because, you know, nixon will say something half-baked or crazy and there's kissi

on walter cronkite, and pointed me in the right direction of a conversation between nixon and chuck colson regarding con cry. as we got to know each other, become friends, the idea was, look, this stuff is just unbelievable. luke has a better access to this material and understands it. he can actually hear the voices in the room. it's tough going for a lot of people. i talked to bob, my friend the other day, and he said, boy, i couldn't listen to the tapes long, so he just have to really strain, but luke has it down to an art form. we collaborated and tried to bring up what's the most important from the tapes, not watergate-related, what else can we learn, particularly u.s. foreign policy? that's what nixon cared about the most. host: and this is nearly 800 pages of two years of tapes. one thing i noticed is president nixon interrupts a lot. guest: all the time. he never lets anybody finish a sentence. nobody ever stands up to him. i mean, actually, henry kissinger is the one who comes out badly in this book, because, you know, nixon will say something half-baked or crazy and there's kissi

on walter cronkite, and pointed me in the right direction of a conversation between nixon and chuck colsonarding con cry. as we got to know each other, become friends, the idea was, look, this stuff is just unbelievable. luke has a better access to this material and understands it. he can actually hear the voices in the room. it's tough going for a lot of people. i talked to bob, my friend the other day, and he said, boy, i couldn't listen to the tapes long, so he just have to really strain, but luke has it down to an art form. we collaborated and tried to bring up what's the most important from the tapes, not watergate-related, what else can we learn, particularly u.s. foreign policy? that's what nixon cared about the most. host: and this is nearly 800 pages of two years of tapes. one thing i noticed is president nixon interrupts a lot. guest: all the time. he never lets anybody finish a sentence. nobody ever stands up to him. i mean, actually, henry kissinger is the one who comes out badly in this book, because, you know, nixon will say something half-baked or crazy and there's kissinger