well, given where we are now, we interviewed a former secretary of defense, chuck kagle, who's normally in the realist camp on issues. and he said this has now become a defining issue for the united states. and it's, and the impression of its power in the world that america can not stand down. he was critical of joe biden for going as slow as biden's team has gone and said it's just too significant. and on top of that, as nato has grown with many of the nato members, he said, you know, if you look at it, he would predict that russia might, had been much more uh hungry for some of these other countries. had nato not expanded to them. and i think it's spelt and berg just said, half of nato is now many of these other nato members that have joined since 1992. so what do you do with the argument that given where we are now, that this is now perceived to be a conflict that the united states can not back out of? well, that's what has said, it's been said about every disaster that the united states has been involved in from vietnam and the domino theory on word. and all of that is just a prelud