chuck rosenberg who work bed on the staffs of both robert mueller and james comey at the fbi. former assistant fbi director for counterintelligence, frank figliuzzi. betsy woodrough, former chief of staff. former chief counsel, ron klain at the table, and mimi rocah is back. i have to tastart with you, fra figliuzzi because we talk so much, we talk on this show all the time about what mueller knows, what the southern district of new york knows. the answer is mountains and mountains and mountains of things that we don't know about yet. >> let's continue with the mountain theme and switch it to a frozen mountain, an iceberg. let's say that once again, nicol nico nicolle, we're getting increasing glimpses of the submerged part of the iceberg, the part we haven't seen yet. as that becomes more and more transparent to us, we learned today, this is what popped out at me, that remember what mueller's all about. he starts as a counterintelligence, russian counterintelligence investigation, we know from andy mccabe that mccabe had added an obstruction element in there involving the pre

chuck rosenberg, former u.s. attorney who worked on the staffs of robert mueller and james comey, is here. frank figliuzzi, former fbi assistant director for counterintelligence, bloomberg opinion executive editor tim o'brien and ring stengel, former undersecretary of state for federal diplomacy at the table. all, lucky for us, msnbc contributors. let me start with you, chuck rosenberg. i'm beginning to think we got it wrong again when it comes to special counsel mueller in that what may be happening is less than a grand finale and more of like a relay race, handing off bataans to various other jurisdictions. is that possible? >> very possible. in fact several relay races. the report he's writing is important because of what he was asked to do to examine russian interference in our election is important. but there's a lot of other stuff going on, nicolle, including the southern district of new york. even when robert mueller and his team finish their report, i am -- and i'm keenly interested in reading it, i am ju

meaning he'll list all of the obstruction evidence and basically, chuck rosenberg, it's up to you toe whether that's obstruction. >> there is a difference between what you find and to describe. i worked for the man. i expect him to describe it and not to characterize it so it will be for us and for congress and journalists to decide whether what mueller has found amounts to obstruction. he will describe it. he will lay out the evidenc foundabe f others to characterize. >> that leads to the political challenge, i think, for the house judiciary committee and that's why you heard hesitance. >> absolutely. ultimately the materials that come from bob mueller to the congress, whether that is sooner or later, are going to put forward questions of whether this president abused his power in such a way that the congress wants to do something about it, and that's significant even in the absence of collusion indictment. so you have both things happening, chuck. on the one hand, people who had long assumed or hoped that this president clearly and edgi legitimately obtained the presidency and ther

i'm not saying we should expect that. >> i think it's what chuck rosenberg outlined and he put the facts you decide if it is. >> on thpe front,le have already decided. i think senator, you're solutely right. for most people this is not top of mind and to the they already know what they think about him, and abo what happened, and so i think the test going forward will be how the democrats n the house handle the further investigations? >> i so think there is an important question here. base is he question's never going to abandon him, but what happens to thec democra base if the worst that comes out of this is the indictments we've seen. we know for a lot of democrats this was going to be a way to get rid of donald trump. this was the instrument, the mueller probe to overturn the 2016 election that a lot of people uldn't explain after it happened. if the worse that we see is these indictmts is that base going to be deflated and swing voters and the suburban districts they know really well. those swing voters, if democrats try it on take this into overtime is the fatigue worse and do people

joining me now is david corn, washington bureau chief and chuck rosenberg former u.s. from virginia. david and chuck, i appreciate your time. chuck, i'm going to go to you first to ask how unusual it is, just from your point of view, for a defendant who was just sentenced to say to the judge, hey, judge, can you make the next judge make the sentence concurrent so that i can have less time? like is that normal at all? >> well, you know, joy, i was a prosecutor for a long time in federal court, and defense attorneys ask for all crazy things. this one is an easy one. there's a federal statute right on point. i'm going to be a little bit of a nerd here, but if your viewers want to read it's title 18 of the united states code section 3584. the simple answer is no. the next judge, amy berman jackson gets to run the sentence consecutively if she wants or concurrent if she wants or some combination of the two. i've seen lots and lots of defense attorneys ask for things they know they can't have, and the judge was right in this case to say not in my court, not in my jurisdictio

rosenberg, former u.s. attorney in the eastern district of virginia. chuck, great to have you here.avid laufman, i know you worked together and you have a lot of mature respect there. >> my old league, and i do certainly respect him. >> i want to ask for your own take, i think that's been greeted with the most surprise from barr's statement, barr's report as it were, saying that the special counsel elected not to make a prosecutorial decision on the issue of obstruction of justice, and so the attorney general decided he'd do it instead. does it surprise you the way it surprised david laufman that mueller would not make that prosecutorial decision? >> it does surprise me. but, like david, i have the utmost respect for bob mueller. i worked for him. if he didn't do it i'm confident he didn't do it for a good reason. what's frustrating to me is i just don't know what that good reason is. >> right. well, i doubt it was because he was shirking the responsibility because it seemed like a hard call. that appears to be -- it's frustrating to me because that attorney general william barr app

chuck rosenberg, matt miller remain with us. e also heard a theory, and there is one more piece of evidence we'll put on the screen. roger stone posted and then took down on social media this weekend this graphic cute enough under theguiguise of roger rabbi in some way, she tosses him behind bars. he can then argue that he should have another judge at trial. do you buy into any of that? >> if that's his theory, that's a complete and abjekt failure, brian. this judge has shown remarkable patience. remember, in the indictment there is a threat by roger stone that he threatened to kill another person. he said, be prepared to die, expletive. any judge i worked with would be putting him in jail, would revoke his bond. this judge is playing a long game. roger is playing a short game. you're not going to get a judge recused if she makes a decision well within her discretion for failure to make bond by her orders. she issues orders, she does not issue suggestions, and it does not seem to me that mr. stone gets that just yet. >> and chuck

join being me now is chuck rosenberg, a former u.s.or fbi official, also an msnbc contributor. so, here we are i think it's march 15th, here we are midway through march. we're all waiting on robert mueller and not knowing when this is going to wrap up. and my sense is it's not really wrapping up because it's dispersed. andrew weissmann, top prosecutor moving on, other top official going to richmond. >> that's right. >> what's your take? >> so it's not binary. it's not they're leaving it fully open or completely closed. it is possible for mueller to write a report and dpin up the cases they're working on. if they come across other things, it appears gates' continued cooperation is in manhattan and not the counsel's office. that makes sense to me. >> why does it make sense? does it mean that's more trump organization related, financial? >> right. so, the mueller remit, as you know, is relatively narrow. it was russian interference in the 2016 election or at large. it was that one thing. southern district of new york has a much broader an

chuck rosenberg was a u.s. attorney. he knows mr. mueller pretty well. he is also an msnbc legal contributor. nice to see you were sir. >> bill barr is a principaled man, but it is that old reagan saying, isn't it? trust but verify. there is stuff that we may not be able to see like grand jury information, classified information, information about ongoing investigations, but i would love to see as much as i can as soon as i can. >> do you feel that barr's memo was written by someone with a legal mind or a political mind? >> maybe a little bit of both. >> they are both lawyers and in political positions, right? they have to be salvvy in both aren arenas, i don't fight him. i do want to see the underlying facts, the prosecutors, and for a long time i have loved facts and that drives my analysis. >> and weeks ago about the obstruction issue, what does that tell you about barr's decision? because obviously mueller did not feel comfortable making a decision in either direction on obstruction. he didn't feel like there was enough to exonerate him or enough to

>> well on the show today, i have one former fbi official, chuck rosenberg who expects, i was trying to understand, what is the definition of principal conclusions, right, the attorney general said in a memo on friday that he would as soon as this weekend perhaps pass along his principal conclusions from the mueller report to congress. how do you define that? chuck rosenberg says expect something extraordinarily narrow, the table of contents to a big, long report or a book, it could be tantalizing that table of contents, but there's no supporting paper underneath it, so you don't know what to make of some of those chapter titles. that's what type of report or principal conclusions they may get. they're not going to see much detail at all, because there's going to be a big fight over what does congress get to see, how much of it, and how much does the public get to see. >> so not even a cliff notes version, just a table of contents. >> i don't think we'll get cliff notes today, no. i think we get chapter titles at best. >> verying it. >> beyond the wait and see statements by democrati

with us to talk about it tonight is chuck rosenberg, former u.s. attorney and former senior fbi official. and jessica ross, now a professor at the cardozo school of law in new york. welcome to you both. chuck, i'd like to begin with you. for people following this ever so closely who are unsettled by the talk that mueller's wrapping up, mueller's going to be done by next tuesday or whenever it is, tell us structurally how that could be true and how the investigation would continue just the same. >> sure, brian. and it's a very good question. i think important for folks to understand that bob mueller's remit, what he was asked to do was relatively narrow. meaning he was asked to look at russian interference in the 2016 election and whether any americans worked with the russians to that end. he was not asked to do all of the other things that the southern district of new york can do, financial investigations into the trump organization, the trump foundation, the inaugural committee and the like, and so while bob mueller will hue closely to what he was

chuck rosenberg, we just heard from him, former u.s. attorney, former senior fbi official. jeremy bash, former chief of staff at cia and pentagon. former chief counsel at house intel. and ber-it berger, a former federal prosecutor with both the eastern district of new york and the southern district of new york. welcome to you all. chuck, i note your time working for and with robert mueller, and i've sorry that you've become something of a mueller whisperer around here. i also know that marine corps captain mueller is all about chain of command. and sending this to the attorney general was in keeping with the chain of command. the question to you that may require conjecture, why do you think mueller punted, in effect? >> that's a hard question. he is a chain of command guy. as well, brian, the federal regulations that govern the office of special counsel say very clearly that ultimately it's the attorney general who decides what happens to the special counsel's cases. it's crafted so that the special counsel has day-to-day independence but it's the attorney general who decid

>> jerry nadler, marco rubio the intel committee on the senate side and chuck rosenberg and ari he will ber r. >>> rate uilou hear about kamalaharris's. quite fascinating. >> you thought you were done today, buthow ends you'll be on your phone allay today. . some of us have kids on spring break this week and are very excited about a bufld. i can't tune b to itause i wonder, do i get to be on. >>> as always, "meet thepress" every sunld. >> toss this to break. >> caller: well, let's go to break. simple. so with xfinity mobile i can customize each line for each family member? yup. and since it comes with your internet, you can switch wireless carriers, and save hundreds of dollars a year. are you pullin' my leg? nope. you sure you're not pullin' my leg? i think it's your dog. oh it's him. good call. customize each line and choose to pay by the gig or getunlimited. do you guys sell other dogs? now that's simple, easy, awesome. and since xfinity mobile comes with xfinity internet, you can save hundreds a year. get $250 back when you buy a new samsung galaxy. click, call, or visit a store tod

attorney, former fbi senior official chuck rosenberg. he's also an msnbc contributor. uck, unlikely praise from an unlikely source. >> well, sort of, katy. i mean, ty cobb, like many of us, grew up inside the justice department. ty was an assistant u.s. attorney in baltimore. for those of us who grew up there, who either worked with bob mueller or worked at the same time bob was there, we know he's an icon. we know he's an american hero. so while it might be odd for the president's former lawyer to praise bob mueller, it's not odd for somebody who worked with bob mueller to praise bob mueller. he is an american hero. ty cobb is spot on. >> would you suspect this might be one of the reasons why ty cobb is no longer a lawyer for donald trump? >> it could very well be. ty cobb also said it's not a witch hunt. i agree with that as well. i happened to agree with everything ty cobb has said and done. if you remember, ty cobb is the one who said this entire investigation would be over in thanksgiving of 2017. so a little bit off on that. but ty cobb is right when he says it's

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joining us now is chuck rosenberg. he's a former u.s. attorney in the eastern district of virginia. ment official. chuck, great to see you. thanks for being here. >> oh, my pleasure. thanks for having me let me ask you about that last question first. i am self-conscious about the fact that i'm reading a lot into the redactions, that when prosecutors tell the judge or when judges ex-brain that some stuff needs to be kept from the public and held behind those black boxes or conducted under seal because it relates to ongoing investigations and uncharged people, my layman's eye reads that as something that is intriguing, that there might be additional prosecutions. there might be live cases that we don't know about that explain why that stuff is being held from the public. is that a fair supposition? >> absolutely. i mean, i read it the same way, rachel. those redactions -- the 18 pages are significant. now, it doesn't mean the mueller team is going to handle that prosecution, but it's one justice department and one fbi, and somebody's going to handle that prosecution going forward. so i

. >> when something this shocking happens and you see it happening, you ask if chuck rosenberg might available. we have known that bob mueller has been been an obstruction of justice. they are taking hold, and it read like a pattern, february 19th in the "new york times," that the president called matthew whittaker, his new acting attorney general and made the same request about the southern district of new york. will his appointee be able to take the reigns. your thoughts of the revelation today that according to jerry nadler admitted that he did, that the president did call into discuss the cohen case. he was directly involved in conversations, and while he was there he was involved in conversations about the scope of the southern district of new york, and whether or not the sdny went too far in pursuing those cases. >> i think this is fascinating on both ends, it is astonishing and surprising that the president would think this is a good idea or that matt whittaker would have attempted to af affectuate the president's plans. it is essentially to say nothing. career prosecutors wil

fact that we clearly have on going investigations in other districts, including in manhattan. >> chuck rosenbergtorney of virginia. chuck, as always, it's great to have you here, particularly tonight. thanks, chuck. >> i want to bring into the conversation now neil katyal who wrote the document that allowed for mr. mueller to be appointed last year. as of tonight he's an msnbc and nbc news contributor. thank you very much for joining us tonight. congratulations on joining us in this formal way. >> thanks. i want to ask you a couple technical things and a couple big picture things. big picture i'd like to ask you first, if this is the way you thought this part of the process would unfold, william bar submitting this letter to corning tonight is the way it was envisioned when the special counsel's regulations were envisioned in the first place. >> yes, barr did the right thing today in transmitting the document and so on. so far the process has worked. one thing we didn't anticipate is the president, if he were the subject of the special counsel investigation calling it a witch hunt and all the th

>> two points, i don't want to steal chuck rosenberg's thunder. or her. >> none of that, ari. let's talk about the log. >> he famously said i'm going to work for months, not going to take no vacations. i'm like a bad doctor, i got no patients. >> oh, god. >> no patience for this. sorry, joe. there are clues. we don't know. we'll see what the federal process is. to the legal question you posed, look, a lot of this can be handed off if bob mueller has reached his findings, doesn't want an in-person interview with the president and wants to take the roger stone case and hand it completely to d.c. or take other cases and farm them out or the fact that the grand jury has not, according to public clues, been meeting recently doesn't mean it hasn't already done other things. it is possible there are other sealed indictments and they could be revealed at a later date or in conjunction with him finishing and turning in findings. it's also possible that there are no more indictments. pat fitzgerald was operating under these same rules, appointed by a recuse

parker who's back from maternity leave and political senior white house, darren samuelson and chuck rosenberg is joining us as well. pete, first to you, rod rosenstein and barr was at the white house today, what was happening? >> it is routine meeting. they go the white house to talk about national security issues. >> it was not necessarily about the mueller report. >> we are told it is not about the mueller report at all. >> pete, during the confirmation hearing, william barr, says he'll do what he can and regulated to do. have we gotten any details on how they envision this playing out? >> not really. when mueller finishes his work in terms of the report that the justice department will make that fact public that mueller has handed his report to the attorney general as the special counsel regulations lay out, the special counsel is to do when the work is done. and we'll be told that has happened and congress will get some notice. there is a good chance that the justice department will impose itself a deadline for when bar will make whatever disclosure he's going to make about what's if in t

chuck rosenberg, former u.s. attorney and senior fbi official. and washington bureau chief.ards and go to the bottom line. you're great at this. a motivational question. if he's innocent of the main charge of culose with the russians, advancing a russian conspiracy, also or possibly as well guilty of obstruction of justice for intimidating comey, the whole works, why did he do all that if he's innocent? why are you acting like you did it? >> one of the things we struggle with is to get into someone's mind. the more the president talks about all the things that he didn't do and others did to him and why this is a witch hunt and a hoax, the more it illuminates what we call consciousness of guilt. i know he talk as lot about how everything has turned on him and against him and it's all unfair. and to mooe us that's consciousness of guilt. >> is that what they meant by returning to the scene of the crime? >> you drive by the bank that you robbed over and over and over again to see if anyone's investigating the bank robbery. so the president -- >> like the guy who starts the fire

. >> all right, chuck rosenberg, there when we need you. that does for us, "mtp daily" starts right now. >> how are you doing nicolle? too much news today. >> we had firehoses, avalanches, whatever metaphor you want to use. it's benwednesday, is a big announcement coming? you beto believe it. good evening, welcome to "meet the press daily." we have a lot to get to this hour, all signs are pointing to beto o'rourke announcing tomorrow morning. his team is asking for people to help with dex messaging tomorrow morning. a piece has come out about him right now. it is a photo spread, by the way, and he will be in iowa tomorrow. we have breaking news after the president ordered all 737 max 8 and 9 jets be grounded, we have more from the admissions fraud case and i will speak with a former education secretary that says the whole system has been run on lies. we begin with the president and his former campaign chief paul manafort. a federal judge said this today in washington, an added 3.5 years to years to his sentence. the judge ripped into manafo

sentencing today, it's interesting, we contacted former senior fbi and justice department official chuck rosenberg to ask chuck because he used to be the u.s. attorney in the eastern district of virginia. we asked him what we should watch for today at this sentencing, basically what we should expect. and chuck told us, quote, if he goes low, don't be shocked. i don't know if i'm shocked by the amount of time that paul manafort is getting. i think i still remain the capacity just to be shocked by the fact that the campaign chairman for the sitting president of the united states is going to prison at all. but for some perspective, now that we've got these numbers, joining us now is barb mcquaid. former u.s. attorney in marc. she was in the courtroom for much of the trial in virginia. good to have you here. >> thanks for having me, rachel. >> so having seen a lot of that trial, knowing what you know about judge ellis, knowing the sentencing guidelines, the overall context of manafort's case, what is your reaction to the sentence that manafort got tonight? >> well, i still think this is an absurdly lo

and our very own chuck rosenberg who had said in the past this is actually a pattern for him in terms of ohow he treats white collar crime. he's never viewed it as that serious compared with drug crime getting increasingly erratic as he gets older. when we walk in august for manafort's trial, we saw for the very beginning that judge ellis did not seem to have a grasp on manafort's life of crime and kruchgz. corruption. he didn't understand why people were so interested in this man. >> really? >> this was something he said out loud. he was shocked at all the presence of media and we were like it doesn't seem like ellis gets it combined with his pattern of doing downward departures of white collar crime, it's makes sense but shocking. >> at some level there's some set of truths that are still with him. in the testimony today if i'm not mistaken and i was reading notes as i came on the air. we didn't get any good information. there are things he knows he didn't tell us. there's some secrets he is going to take to prison with him. >> right. so when they cut a plea deal is mueller's team b

. >> chuck rosenberg, a former u.s. attorney for the eastern district of virginia and southern district of texas. and served under jaums comey. there was a closed meeting. one of the republicans has said that nadler is muscharacterizing what happened there. i want tasay there are other people in the room who say differently. that being what the chair sinks up to public reporting. >> let's assume nadler had it right or petty close to right. the notion that the president could get the acting attorney general to get the u.s. attorney in the southern district of new york to unrecuse himself strikes me a little bit craze a. i understand what the prefix kuwait un"means. when you recuse yourself, it's because you have a conflict or the appearance of a confluct. you don't just unrecuse. i can madge an benign version of that conversation and a nefarious version of the conversation and that second thing, the nefarious version would be deeply troubling. >> we've had reporting there have been conversations. and matthew whitaker apo

chuck rosenberg and joyce vance are former u.s. attorneys and msnbc contributors. ank you for joining us here. chuck, let me start with you. what's your reaction to the journal's reporting on michael cohen and specifically the piece if he could not get a pardon, he might cooperate with probation reports. how do you read that? >> defendants are always looking for a way out. once they're caught or are in trouble, there's a couple paths to redemption or at least to lessening the impact, whatever they did wrong. a pardon is one, but that's extraordinarily rare. very few people get them. even fewer people have a personal connection to a president in order to ask for one. if cohen's attorney asked for one, well, i guess that shock me. the typical path to redejs mpti is cooperating. that's how most defendants work off time. i'm not surprised they would explore this stuff. i'd be surprised if he got or accepted a pardon. >> the journal reports there's no indication cohen was aware of the discussion, was personally asking for this or involved in this as he said in the testim

women's public leadership network and from washington, ken and intelligence reporter along with chuck rosenberg, former u.s. attorney and doj official, now an msnbc contributor. ken, let me start with you. walk through what happened yesterday and where things stand at this point. late in the afternoon, friday, we got word this report, long awaited report was transmitted to the attorney general. where is it now? what is happening now, over the course of the weekend? >> david, attorney general barr said in a letter, he would brief key members of congress on the principle conclusions in the report as soon as this weekend. we may hear something as soon as today about the decisions to decline prosecution by robert mueller. he also said, in the letter, which gives a clue about the breath and length of the report, there are other parts of the report that he would confer with lawyers and congressional officials what, if anything, he can make public. that suggests and me reporting tells me there's a lengthy, classified annex to the report. it's a detailed narrative. there's speculation he would write a

. >> so, chuck rosenberg, does that tell you anything about what you think is in this report, which does mean donald trump junior, for instance, should be like phew, dodged a bullet? >> i don't think he should exhale deeply yet. i always believed the southern district of new york have a lot more running room than mueller did. it was a really important one, don't get me wrong, but it was much more narrow. in terms of what southern district of new york could be looking at that includes the inaugural committee, the trump foundation, individual instances of financial fraud, plus the campaign finance violations. i don't know if exhale deeply just yet. >> nicole, do you think that democrats can sit and say the sdny or congress -- >> i don't think democrats are in the box. i think republicans have been check mated. i think they will have to look at a report from mueller that they had to claim when it was bill clinton that it was obstruction of justice. they're older than dirt so they were all there with more hair. i think republicans are the ones in a box today. they will have to decide in the

attorney and former senior fbi official chuck rosenberg. matt miller, former chief spokesman at the department of justice and former cia director john brennan joins us. let me start with you, chuck, we are in this sort of -- let's just fess up. we've all got our phones in front of us because we really are in this moment where anything can happen at any time. our viewers are i think growing impatient with this idea that we're all on mueller alert. but we are on mueller alert because the white house is on mueller alert because the attorney general is on mueller alert. >> that's right. we're all on mueller alert. to tamp it down just a little bit, what mueller is doing is really important. that report matters a lot but that report is not the whole ball game. by the way. when that report is transmitted to bill barr, bill barr has a tough call to make, which is what do i do with this thing? what do i do with all of the stuff in this report that's classified or protected by grand jury secrecy rules or that concern ongoing investigations. i would l

. >> i want to bring into the conversation barbara mcwade and chuck rosenberg, and amy stoddard, and alexi. our reporting team remains on the ground and in the field for updates as we get them. chuck, let me start with you. based on what you've heard from the judge so far this morning, how do you think it's going for paul manafort? >> well, sort of as expected. look, most defendants get credit for accepting responsibility merely by pleading guilty. even though the federal sentencing guidelines that govern this process say that's not enough. you have to plead guilty and do something more. but the reflex among most federal judges is if you plead guilty, you get credit. that's not going to determine the final sentence, however. all right? she still has an enormous amount of flexibility. and she can sentence him for up to ten years in prison. and if she so chooses can run that consecutively, meaning in addition to the time that he got in virginia. so these things that are going right now are kind of process things. right? it's not going to determine in the end what sentence he gets. >> wh

chuck rosenberg our colleague says that's not even a thing, unrecusal. robert mueller assembled and tried to put together the tweets, the public statements. donald trump went to the rose garden and attacked jeff sessions for recusing. there's a vast body of attempt to obstruct this investigation. when you see republicans saying, well, robert mueller finished. that in my understanding, is not an exoneration from the crime of obstruction. there are also open questions about whether tlds some exposure around witness tampering, this republican party is going to have to decide if they still care about criminal conduct. >> neil, is it possible that mueller could come of -- to some of the few things nicolle just listed and say something akin to this area, i thought it best adjudicated by congress? >> absolutely. i mean, i think that's often what happens in impeachment, and that's the way our system works, it works for a good reason, some of this really bad conduct is not criminal. some can be. but other things like mueller basically proved that trump lied to th

people who worked with and learned from bob mueller in bob we trust, so i think i've heard others, chuck rosenbergim comey say it's about the process, and we're all confident that bob mueller has engaged in the process the way it should be handled. so i think we're going to have to wait for the results and hopefully we're all going to have confidence in the results. >> so you know, i think what's striking, chris, is how much energy the president has devoted to undermining the very institution of the special counsel, and frankly, law enforcement in general. if you think about it, if you remember the tv show madmen, one of the main lines is if you don't like what people are saying, change the conversation. rather than address any of the legal issues on the merits, it's attack the fact that bob mueller and rod rosenstein weren't elected officials and that he won a big election. this is all part of long now two, three year process of undermining institutions. he's gone after congress. the president's gone after the special counsel. we're going to see much more of that in the next few days. it's underm

>> normally it's done by chuck rosenberg, thank you so much, my friend. >> bleeds irony, i know. >> we are so far from that, and thank you, by the way, for -- to all the detail last hour, including your graphics, when i looked up in a room where there was no sound on the tv, where it said the barr report, not the mueller report. we've had 24 hours of coverage that seems to be about the mueller report which no one has seen. >> i would love to see the mueller report. so far wul we've got is four pages from bill barr, not the same thing. >> if we -- putting the mueller report up there as the graphic, we're going to see that when we have the actual mueller report. >> bingo, exactly. >> thank you, rachel. >> thanks, lawrence. >>> ed marquee will join us, senate co-sponsor of the green new deal, having partnered with freshman congresswoman alexandria ocasio-cortez, we will get the senator's reaction to attorney general barr's letter about the mueller report. and at the end of a day, in which six house committee chairs demand the full release of the mueller report, we will be joined by congre

we do know that president attempted to obstruck, the chuck ros rosenberg, donald trump went to the rose garden. such a investigation. that is my understanding, that is not an exonnereration. there are open questions, if there is exposure around witness caring. >> is it possible that mueller could come to the few things th that is a something asdin to, in this area, i thought it best adjusticated by congress. >> that is the way our system works. mueller move proved natrump lied to the 2016 election, saying i have no business dealers with russia. that is not a crime. but, it is something that is a when you have aemgzs like that. >> counsel, it is possible, it remains they see a held or two, they refers to the southern sdnlth of can drop what they want and what they have anya state prosecutors, which have congress, a branch of government. when you get to the southern district of new york, or virginia. those are federal prosecutors. it is hard to say, don't investigate further. >> the news hit at the end of nicontrol wallace's broadcast, and at the very start of chuck we watched it unfold l

. >> chuck rosenberg, former u.s. attorney in the eastern district of virginia, former senior fbi and justice department official. chuck, as always, it's great to have you here, particularly tonight. >> thank you for having me, rachel. >> i want to bring into the conversation now neal katyal, who wrote the department of justice regulations defining the office of special counsel, which is the document that allowed for mueller to be appointed last year. mr. katyal served as acting solicitor general in the obama administration, and as of tonight i should tell you he is an msnbc and nbc news contributor, which makes us all even more proud than we usually are to come to work. neal, thank you for joining us tonight. it's great to have you here. and congratulations on joining us in this formal way. >> thanks. >> i want to ask you a couple of technical things and a couple of big picture things. big picture i'd like to ask you first if this is the way you thought this part of the process would unfold, if william barr submitting

. >> i want to bring into the conversation our friend chuck rosenberg, a former u.s. attorney from the eastern district of virginia. he's also a former senior fbi and justice department official. thank you so much for being here. i haven't had a chance to be in touch with you at all since with e got this letter from the attorney general since we did characterization of how the mueller probe is coming to an end. i'd love to hear your top line reaction to how this has gone down tonight so far. >> yeah, top line reaction, rachel, and by the way, thanks for having me on. fascinating issues, interesting day. top line reaction is that now you can see why the relationship historically between the white house and the justice department has been so carefully guarded, why we don't normally communicate the results of investigations to the white house, particularly where it involves, you know, senior white house officials. there's this tension, of course, because mueller and rosenstein and bill barr, the attorney general are all parts of the executive branch, and the president of

. >> we want to bring in ari melber and also chuck rosenberg. gentlemen, thanks for being here on a saturday morning. we've been waiting for this for nearly two years. ari, i thought the attorney general's letter was telling specifically the fact as he says as early as this weekend -- it would be reasonable to take time to review it. but as early as this weekend, he could provide congress with the principal conclusions. >> and it sounds like the conclusions about who they indicted, these 34 people and three organizations, we already know about that, and who they didn't indict. so that will be the way he wrote it probably something very brief which is why it could come out as soon as this weekend. >> chuck, let's look at the numbers again here. mueller indicted 34 individuals, got seven guilty pleas and one conviction. of course nbc news is reporting that there are no more indictments expected from the special counsel's office. does that mean that the president and everyone else is off the hook? >> no, not at all. and i don't think anyone should