imagined this case with all seven in it if there was not that time constraint. >> andrew weissmann, chuck rosenberghuck, i think you're still going to be with us. our special coverage of the indictment of former president donald trump continues right here on msnbc. and ana cabrera is going to join us next after a very short break. don't go anywhere. (♪♪) astepro allergy, steroid free allergy relief that starts working in 30 minutes, while other allergy sprays take hours. with astepro's unbeatably fast allergy relief you can astepro and go! trying vapes to quit smoking with astepro's unbeatably fast allergy relief might feel like progress, but with 3x more nicotine than a pack of cigarettes - vapes increase cravings - trapping you in an endless craving loop. nicorette reduces cravings until they're gone for good. type 2 diabetes? discover the ozempic® tri-zone. in my ozempic® tri-zone, i lowered my a1c, cv risk, and lost some weight. in studies, the majority of people reached an a1c under 7 and maintained it. ozempic® lowers the risk of major cardiovascular events such as stroke, heart attack, or de

chuck rosenberg, power panel, and i will start with you if i can.hen i read this social media post by donald trump, he promised a large complex and detailed report by monday, to refute this indictment. is it bound with footnotes and where you could go, i wonder, is his team now scrambling to come up with the report? what do we know about it? >> very little. i mean look, tolkien wrote large complex and detailed volumes too and they were fiction and i can't imagine anything in this report would be anything other than that and the facts that donald trump wants here just don't exist, there were dead people in florida, or georgia, or florida for that matter, voting in the numbers that he would need to make this work, there were young people that weren't out of state people, and there weren't ballots stuffed in machines, i mean if you go back and listen to the hour-long phone call that donald trump and mark meadows made to the secretary of state here in georgia, which has been kind of reduced on air so many times about finding the 11,000 plus votes needed

. >>> all right, joining me now is chuck rosenberg. he's a former federal prosecutor and an nbc news legal analyst chuck, good to see you. there's a couple themes coming from the defense in this case. one is that there was no intent, that mr. trump was simply relying on the advice of counsel what do you make of that argument? >> well, advice of counsel is a real defense. you see it from time to time, but for mr. trump to rely on it, he would have had to have been completely candid with his lawyer and relied on his lawyer's advice in good faith. candor and good faith could prove to be stumbling blocks for mr. trump here. >> and what about the other theme that they're pushing, which is that it's a matter of free speech, that the president could say what he wanted to say? >> well, speech designed to commit a crime or to commit a fraud is not speech that is protected by the first amendment. you can't lie on your tax return or solicit money for your ponzi scheme or instruct a colleague to destroy documents subpoenaed by a grand jury and clai

. >> joining me is chuck rosenberg . chuck, you're going to be a regular on the show at this point. this to me. why did the attorney general choose to make david weiss special counsel? the same rational he used for donald trump's special counsel clearly applies to here. >> and he had described david weiss's running room that he had the ability to make his own decisions in the case. so i give him this extra title? it seems somewhat cosmetic to me, chuck. >> are there additional tools that he did not have before? what are those tools? >> at the edges, yes. he can bring charges in other districts on his own signature. but frankly he could not have done that if he wanted previously two. the word here is, cosmetic. it doesn't change the tilt of the earth. >> so the motivation here for the attorney general, is he worried the cases against trump will look biased? >> there seems to be a drumbeat to the point the special counsel can investigate at least hunter biden if not the biden family. mr. weiss and the special counsel has the authority to take the investigation where everything ought t

chuck rosenberg former u.s. attorney, former senior fbi official, clarion as always. chuck, thank you so much. >> thank you, rachel. >> we'll be right back. stay with us. x this. (alternate voice) poligrip power hold + seal gives our strongest hold and 5x food seal. if your mouth could talk, it would ask for... poligrip. how can you sleep on such a firm setting? gab, mine is almost the same as yours. almost is just another word for not as good as mine. save 50% on the sleep number® limited edition smart bed. plus, 60-month financing on all smart beds. shop now only at sleep number®. >>> five members of one pro trump armed paramilitary group will appear in court tomorrow for a hearing that may well decide the course of the rest of their lives. proud boys and oathkeepers convicts are going to be sentenced all week this week in federal court in d.c. some of these folks were convicted of seditious conspiracy, some were convicted of lesser charges. the high point at least in terms of public attention will likely wednesday when proud boys leaders enrique tarrio and ethan nor

notice chuck rosenberg?for being here tonight. >> my thanks rachel. >> how do we know how well meadows did today? how get his cases that his trial should be moved to federal court? >> it is the three part supreme court test that is important. that i want to talk to you about. in order to get plucked out of state court as you described, he would have to so that he was a federal official. he was, that part is easy. that he was acting within the scope of his federal authority. that part is hard. and the third piece rachel, that he would have a federal defense of the case if it were moved from state to federal court. and at least for the state of the proceeding. its focus on number two. is he acting within the scope of his federal authority. i think that that is a hard thing for him to show. chiefs of staff do lots of things. and the chief of staff to a prison of course does lots of things. but this was a political effort to thwart f fair and free election. and if mr. meadows is going to get tripped up over ever

chuck rosenberg former u.s. attorney, former senior fbi official, clarion as always. rachel. >> we'll be right back. stay with us. u were on vacation? it's too expensive. use priceline, they've got deals no one else has. what about work? i got you. looking great you guys! ♪ go to your happy price ♪ ♪ priceline ♪ detect this: living with hiv, i learned i can stay undetectable with fewer medicines. that's why i switched to dovato. dovato is a complete hiv treatment for some adults. no other complete hiv pill uses fewer medicines to help keep you undetectable than dovato. detect this: most hiv pills contain 3 or 4 medicines. dovato is as effective with just 2. if you have hepatitis b, don't stop dovato without talking to your doctor. don't take dovato if you're allergic or allergic reaction symptoms, stop dovato and get medical help right away. serious or life-threatening lactic acid buildup and liver problems can occur. tell your doctor if you have kidney or liver problems, or if you are pregnant, breastfeeding, or considering pregnancy. dovato may harm an unborn baby. m

chuck rosenberg, you'll be joining us later in the hour. when we are back in 60 seconds, campus tragedy. a shooting at unc chapel hill a week into the school year. more on the suspected gunman now charged with first degree murder. >>> also ahead, new revelations on the racist rampage in jacksonville. the college security guard who confronted the gunman now sharing his story. >>> plus, new video shows a rescue helicopter just before it crashed into an apartment building. what we learned about what happened. >>> and later, a major reckoning with sexism in spain after that controversial kiss at the world cup. t controversial kiss at the world cup. (fan #1) there ya go! that's what i'm talkin' about! (josh allen) is this your plan to watch the game today? (hero fan) uh, yea. i have to watch my neighbors' nfl sunday ticket. (josh allen) it's not your best plan. but you know what is? myplan from verizon. switch now and they'll give you nfl sunday ticket from youtubetv, on them. (hero fan) this plan is amazing! (josh allen) another amazing plan, b

clear under the constitution you can be a convicted felon and run for president. >> let me get chuck rosenbergonversation. chuck, there are a lot of ifs and what ifs, but they're real. >> they're real, lester. so i can imagine two ways that these cases could disappear, the federal ones could disappear if mr. trump is re-elected first because as president he would be the head of the executive branch. so with or without the consent of his attorney general, he could order the dismissal of any pending federal cases. second, as president, he could pardon anybody for any federal crime which means all of the unindicted co-conspirators, for instance, in the newest indictment could be pardoned or all of his co-defendants in the florida case could be pardoned. there is an open question because the constitution is not clear on this point as to whether or not a president can pardon himself. the only exception articulated in the constitution, lester is that a president can pardon except in cases of impeachment. so had he been impeached and removed, in other words, convicted in the senate, and he was not, h

attorney and fbi official chuck rosenberg, former u.s. district attorney mary accord. andrew and mary are co-hosts of msnbc's prosecuting donald trump podcast i should say. prosecutors propose protective orders. he's saying he can't speak at all about the case when he can. it's just protecting the grand jury testimony. hearing what a new hampshire crowd responding to his call with bs, bs. that's a new campaign refrain i guess. >> i guess the 2023 version of build the wall i suppose. the former president is conflating the protective order, he's already under one in new york. there's going to be a hearing on friday about one in the special counsel's case with a broader gag order which has not been imposed in either case. the political upshot of what he's trying to do is say his right to make political arguments about this case which he believes is purely political is being curtailed. as you rightly point out, a protective order will prevent him from talking about specific elements of evidence produced in discovery, something the government lawyers are giving to his lawye

and the last thing i'll say, and i'm stealing from chuck rosenberg here. forgive me, chuck. laid out, a lot of people i talk to think that donald trump could persuasively claim that he legitimately believed that the election was stolen and/or that he was relying on the advice of lawyers. but the problem with that defense is it seems it would require him to testify at the trial. who else can talk about donald trump's state of mind? and that obviously would be legally disastrous. so, it's a real trap that jack smith has set for donald trump in a breathtaking 45-page indictment, guys. >> it is a breathtaking 45-page indictment. it is narrow. it is focused. it is powerful for the reasons that ken pointed out. willie, first of all, he doesn't have to prove that donald trump is responsible for the riot. and secondly, he gives up in the beginning. he has a right to lie, if he wants to lie. he has a right to lie. and he moves on to the conspiracies that he took part in where he lays it out specifically. >> the rights of voters. >> rights of voters. and jeffery clark's name many ther

. >> and former cia official chuck rosenberg. good to have you all with us. >>> we start with a flurry of legal action in the latest indictment of donald trump, just days after being formally charged for his alleged efforts to overturn the 2020 election results. the former president spent the weekend testing the limits of the judge assigned to the case. during thursday's arraignment, the magistrate judge warned trump against interfering in the case, telling him that his bond could be revoked if he tried to influence a juror, threaten or bribe a witness, or retaliate against anyone giving information to prosecutors. despite telling the judge he understood her warning, just one day later, the former president posted on his social media site, quote, "if you go after me, i'm coming after you." that message set off alarm bells within the justice department, where special counsel jack smith quickly asked a judge to impose a protective order in the case, to block donald trump from sharing evidence turned over to his defense team on soci

and i just referred to chuck rosenberg who, you know, paul, like, you has tried a lot of cases here. here's what he had to say this morning on "morning joe." >> i don't think i ever prosecuted a indicate where i didn't have a discovery order and a protective order. and by the way, i never had an issue with it. and the folks on the other side abided by it and it helped to streamline the process. that's a key thing to understand here. mr. trump's attorneys don't want to the help streamline the process. >> so, they aren't getting more time here because it's taken a couple of days although she's not postponed the hearing date which was august 28th. what's your take on this, paul, as a constitutional lawyer, law professor and former prosecutor? >> yeah, a criminal prosecutor has the right to the see the evidence against them. it's very common in these cases for a judge to restrict how the defendant can use the evidence. we're going to see a lot more of these dustups. what's really revealing is the dispatch with which judge cannon files the motion on friday. on saturday, judge chutkan orde

criminal case in state court in fulton county, georgia, and they have 10 that until otherwise geoff: chuck rosenbergthing so much clearer. [laughter] dr. rosenberg: only occasionally. geoff: thanks for coming. dr. rosenberg: yes, sir. ♪ amna: a federal hate crime investigation is underway after a gunman, who embraced racist, white supremacist ideology, shot and killed three black people at a dollar general store in a predominantly black neighborhood in jacksonville, florida. the victims of saturday's shooting include angela carr, a 52-year-old uber driver who was waiting outside the store, dollar general employee a.j. laguerre, who was only 19 and had recently graduated from high school, and 29-year-old jerald gallion, a customer who had planned to spend the rest of the weekend with his young daughter. meanwhile, the city is also preparing for the impacts of hurricane idalia. joining me now is the mayor of jacksonville, donna deegan. matta mayor, welcome and thanks for joining us. i want to begin with your city's preparations for the hurricane, expected to make landfall for tomorrow. what can you te

attorney chuck rosenberg who is an nbc news legal analyst. u're going to be a regular here on the show at this point. we may have to call you a co-host. explain this to me. why now, did the attorney general choose to make david weiss a special counsel, and then again i go back. the same rationale he used for donald trump's special counsel, clearly applies to hear. >> and by the way, mr. garland had described david weiss's running room as sort of mren ary, right? he had his own plan to make his own decisions in the case, so why give him this extra title. it seems somewhat cosmetic to me, chuck. >> so are there additional tools that he has now that he didn't have before? what are those tools? >> at the edges, yes. it means he can bring charges and other districts on his own signature, but frankly, he could have done that if he needed to previously, so again, i think the right word here is cosmetic. it doesn't really change the tilt of the earth. >> so, and what's -- so then the motivation here for the attorney general is simply to -- is he worri

. >> we're going to ask chuck rosenberg about the contingencies in a moment. ken, i want to ask you about what else is happening in d.c. today. the grand jury that handed donald trump the indictment last week met again today. what could they be talking about now? >> it's anybody's guess. they're still investigating this election suppression issue and potential obstruction of justice and other things. and they're allowed to do that. as long as they are in pursuit of another case. they can't keep investigating the case that's been indicted. so what that tells you is that there are still people liable to be criminally charged in these related matters. >> that's really interesting. all right, vaughn, so donald trump is on the trail talking about trying his case in the court of public opinion. has he been talking about it? saying anything to voters? >> yeah, just in about the last five minutes as ken was speaking there, he was, made a direct mention alluding to what could very well come over the next ten days. we are looking at a window by next week's end which the

chuck rosenberg, and glenn thrush, thank you for much your time tonight. we have much more still to come this evening. brand new propublica reporting on little luxury items lavished on justice clarence thomas. you're not gonna believe the news. plus republicans plow full steam ahead on the biden crime family boondoggle. there is a why in here somewhere and we are going to get to it with claire mccaskill. that's coming up. detect this: living with hiv, i learned i can stay undetectable with fewer medicines. that's why i switched to dovato. dovato is a complete hiv treatment for some adults. no other complete hiv pill uses fewer medicines to help keep you undetectable than dovato. detect this: most hiv pills contain 3 or 4 medicines. dovato is as effective with just 2. if you have hepatitis b, don't stop dovato without talking to your doctor. don't take dovato if you're allergic to its ingredients or taking dofetilide. this can cause serious or life-threatening side effects. if you have a rash or allergic reaction symptoms, stop dovato and get medical help r

chuck rosenberg, and glenn trust, thank you for much your time tonight. we have much more still to come this evening. brand new propublica reporting a little luxury items lavished on justice clarence thomas. you're not gonna believe the news. plus republicans plow full steam ahead on the biden crime family boondoggle. there is a why in here somewhere and we are going to get to it with claire mccaskill. that's coming up. that's coming up the day you get your clearchoice dental implants makes every day... a "let's dig in" day... mm. ...a "chow down" day... a "take a big bite" day... a "perfectly delicious" day... - mm. [ chuckles ] - ...a "love my new teeth" day. because your clearchoice day is the day everything is back on the menu. a clearchoice day changes every day. schedule a free consultation. (tony hawk) skating for over 45 years has taken a toll on my body. i take qunol turmeric because it helps with healthy joints and inflammation support. why qunol? it has superior absorption compared to regular turmeric. qunol. the brand i trust. when i was diagn

attorney and senior fbi official chuck rosenberg and atlanta journal constitution columnist pat murphy back with us. >> i'm a fan of rico. i told people that. the reason i'm a fan of rico is i think jurors are very, very intelligent. they want to know the whole story. they want to know what happened. they want to make an accurate decision about someone's life. and so rico is a tool that allows a prosecutor's office and law enforcement to tell the whole story. >> so, georgia's rico law is different, unique. how is it unique and how is this one considered maybe one of the toughest in the nation? >> for one thing, jose, it is broader than its federal counterpart. when congress passed rico, racketeer by the way is a quaint word for criminal. when congress passed rico in 1970, the concern was that mob families were using lots of criminals to commit disparate crimes, bribery, extortion, murder, bid rigging, all sorts of things. rico allowed the government, the federal prosecutors and the fbi, to sweep all these criminals into a single prosecutive bucket, a rico bucket. a lot of states follow

joining me now is chucks s rosenberg, former attorney and senior fbi official, and glenn thrush. i know, chuck, you are an important legal asset for all of us here at msnbc in terms of your understanding of the nuances of the law here, and my question to you is how difficult a position is judge chutkan in right now in what seems to be fragrant abuse ofs a defendantn any case, and trump's legitimate right to talk about what may be aay potent political weapon goi into a presidential nominating contest. >> very difficult, alex.y i think you framed it exactly right. we've never had as a criminal defendant somebody who is also likely to be a major party nominee for president. so judge chutkan has to balance those first amendment rights and his interest in campaigning, his right to speakn publicly about his campaign and his promise for office with the needs of a criminal trial, which include a lot of restrictions on a lot of defendants in ordinary cases around the country. and as you well know there are restrictive rules in this particular federal court that limit what a defendant can s

>> garrett haake, ryan reilly, chuck rosenberg, thank you. michael steele, we'll bring you back later this hour. >>> dangerous flooding, typhoons, fire and heat. the brutal weather conditions brutalizing the globe as phoenix finally gets out from under record-breaking temperatures. but not out of danger. we'll explain in just 60 seconds. danger. we'll explain in just 60 seconds. subway refreshed everything and now they're slicing their deli meats fresh. that's why this qb profers the new five meat beast. and this qb profers it. and if we profer it. we know you'll profer it too. are you trying to outspokesperson me? maybe. have fun, sis! ( ♪♪ ) ( ♪♪ ) can't stop adding stuff to your cart? get the bank of america customized cash rewards card, choose the online shopping category and earn 3% cash back. there's never a dull moment for the nelsons'. fifth generation montana ranchers. there's a story in every piece of land. run with us on a john deere gator™ xuv and start telling yours. >>> some breaking news, new jersey's lieutenant governor sheila

i want to bring in chuck rosenberg, former u.s. attorney, and former senior fbi official who was an msnbc contributor. i just want to get your take first on judge chutkan's ruling, essentially saying to donald trump's defense, we're not going anywhere near that. >> yeah, it makes sense to me. look. some of what i'm about to say, chris, may be informed by the fact that i grew up as a prosecutor in the eastern district of virginia, where cases moved quickly, expeditiously, and without any continuance. six months is plenty of time to prepare for trial that doesn't even strike me as a close call, and so i think she was right to recognize that just as a defendant has a right to a speedy trial, so does the people represented in this case by the government. >> we know the defense wanted more time to prepare or their real desire was to get it pushed past the election. right? what about jack smith and his team, what are his challenges, what are their challenges between now and then. >> well, the biggest challenge for a prosecutor is the sam

chuck rosenberg to speak more into that. it's not a nutty notion that she would question that, but it did seem like she was a little bit surprised that there were two grand juries in the case when the prosecution had already laid that out in previous filings, joe. >> yeah, it seemed to be bad faith. speaking of bad faith, the judge in the e. jean carroll case, where the judge said mr. trump raped e. jean carroll not pleased. >>> the countersuit against writer e. jean carroll. carroll said he defamed him, when he was only found liable for sexual abuse. yesterday, a judge ruled against trump's argument, explaining why the jury did not find that trump raped carroll according to new york penal law's narrow definition, her allegation of rape is not defamation. because the words common and more widely understood definition is broader. the judge also denied trump's claim of presidential immunity, saying he waited too long to raise that defense. the countersuit is in response to a separate defamation lawsuit filed over comments trum

we will hear those opinions one day. >> chuck rosenberg, thank you very much. really appreciate it. thanks for being on again. >> worth the wait, huh? >> yes, at least get some answers, still ahead, senate majority leader chuck schumer is our guest. we'll get his reaction to donald trump's newest indictment, this one out of georgia. plus, we're learning more about the evidence collected by the special counsel in the federal election interference case and the, quote, momentous steps taken by twitter to protect donald trump. also ahead, one of hunter biden's attorneys has stepped down, but will still play a part in the federal case against the president's son. >> actually testify for the president's son. >> we'll have the latest on the devastating maui wildfires, the growing death toll and the search for survivors. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. dana: i've been thinking about my future a lot lately. i'm a production manager... we're making clean energy batteries that store the energy from solar panels and wind turbines. since president biden passed his clean energy

attorney and senior fbi official chuck rosenberg, former u.s. attorney and msnbc legal analyst joyce vance and political reporter for "the atlanta journal-constitution" greg bluestein. joe, this happened overnight. the indictment is almost 100 pages long, and some republicans were quick to jump in front of cameras and make ridiculous parallels to this. >> well, it's because they're still playing the game of politics, and they somehow missed the memo months ago that this has turned from a political father said, a political charade into a deadly serious legal issue. regardless of where the indictments are, so they can lie all they want, they can try to puff up smoke, they can talk about hunter biden as we've said before. hunter biden will be judged. he'll be judged in a court of law, and he'll be judged by a jury and however that jury rules will be how things are determined. so ted cruz and the rest of them can huff and puff and try to blow the house down but doesn't change a damp in thing about donald trump's future. it rests whether he's in jail

attorney chuck rosenberg, thank you, both, very much for coming on this morning. >> chuck, most definitely not a simple country lawyer. >> listen to every word he says. >> i would not want to be -- >> sometimes it's chilling. >> -- a simple country lawyer across the table from him. look at him. >> no, i would not. >> seems so gentle. >> yeah. >> look at that. raise that eyebrow. legal killer, baby. >> well, we appreciate your insight, quite frankly. >> thank you, chuck. did you see the eyebrow? >> we're trying to get through this. >>> coming up, a controversial downgrade of the united states credit rating, it has the markets in the red this morning. we'll explain what prompted the move and tell you the reaction from one of america's top banking executives. >>> also ahead, senator blumenthal joins us in studio. we'll talk about bipartisan legislation to protect children on social media. >>> also, his reaction to trump's latest third indictment. "morning joe" is coming right back. what do we always say, son? liberty mutual customizes your car insurance... so you only pay for what you need. t

i must say at this point, i agree completely with chuck rosenberg. going inside a federal courthouse. they're very frightening places to go even as a young lawyer. i'm wondering what your take is about separating out all of this noise, sort of the ground noise with the signal, which is what donald trump now faces, which is the law. >> and he's afraid of the law. listening to john speak there about him being booked and what might go through his mind, i genuinely think we need to start having a discussion about whether this guy is a flight risk. i don't say that lightly. the closer we get to trials, the more serious it becomes looking at how hard core these indictments are from smith and willis. i don't know if you saw him joking with his followers the other day, i wish i was in france right now, not in america. nothing is off the table with this guy. i genuinely think we're going to talk about what is his exit strategy apart from a plea? coming back to your point about monday, when i saw that he was announcing a press conference to relitigate the 2020

on social media, you know, we did have several prosecutors, former prosecutors including the chuck rosenberg for georgia to change that code and fix it. >> and lastly, jackie, what's the latest outlet of trump camp as how they are viewing what's going on there, in particular the decision to turn himself in. he's still got a week or so to do that. you know, there's still some theories he might choose to next week to even upstage the republican primary debate. how are -- what's their thought process and what's their feelings about what they've seen now they've spent a few days with this indictment? >> yeah, john, you know, quite frankly this has sort of become standard operating procedure for them. it wasn't that different of a week than the past few weeks they've had, which is not to say that the charges were extremely extraordinary, that fani willis released earlier this week. but at this point they are well familiarized and sort of socialized with a lot of the charges that came down. a lot of these charges were sort of from jack smith's indictment. a lot of this was not new per se, so it wa

, of course a number of different circumstances there, but, you know, i will use the words of chuck rosenbergis is a clunky case where you talk about you have 19 defendants, and that's 19 different sets of attorneys, and 19 opening statements, and 19 sets of cross examinations if they are all to go to trial, that's something that could certainly take a long time. it will take a long time to get there and play out once the trial gets there, guys. >> we know trump is often trying to delay, delay, delay. does he have ways he could try and muck this up even more? >> certainly as blayne pointed out, you have 19 different defendants and 18 people who have opportunities to delay, and it's their right for pretrial motions and due process rights here, too. it's worth pointing out, she said six months until trial and maybe that was in the heat of the moment last night, and i don't think there's any chance in the world that will hold here. in a complex case like this, in past cases, they have not gone to trial nearly that fast. >> when you read it, what were some of the things that stuck out to you? >>

. >> and harry, i think chuck rosenberg, your colleague, and fellow contributor was questioning whether was necessary in the case. he said it was somewhat cosmetic. >> that's true. the only reason he wanted this power, once he asked for it, garland was kind of in a box. but he wanted to bring the cases, in new york and l.a., he did not need the special counsel designation to do it. but he can automatically, he could just asked and garland would have granted but he could automatically do it with this designation. again, if he wants to bring the very same charges but in new york or california, that's one thing. if he wants to bring now new charges, that's another. >> and jackie, republicans in congress initially had been calling for the appointment of a special counsel in the case. now it's a reality and many of them seem to have changed their mind. is it because it's david weiss? >> that's a really good question, andrea. it's hard to sort of track the line of thinking about why republicans have pivoted except from a rhetorical perspective. this obviously, this new line of messaging attac

attorney chuck rosenberg on set with us. so aaron, kick us off from outside the courthouse. what's the atmosphere out there as we get closer to president trump's arrival? >> reporter: you know, it's sort of a tale of two cities. we're right off the national mall. you can see the capitol dome behind me. tourists are moving about. traffic is moving. you swing around to the actual courthouse and things are different. you see an increased law enforcement presence. these barriers, these metal fences have gone up all around the courthouse. that happened late last night. completely encircling the courthouse. you may be able to see a plow truck here as well, just on this side of the street, there are several of these trucks lined up along with d.c. police cruisers. part of the security presence set up in anticipation of the former president's arrival. it's atypical for this area to see this sort of a law enforcement presence, but as you know, d.c. is a city that has more than a dozen different law enforcement agencies that operate here, and they all work in tandem when there's a hig

district attorney, cyrus vance, and an npc news legal analyst and former fbi senior official, chuck rosenbergen, you're the newest to my table here and you're the most familiar with georgia's racketeering law. explain why she felt that was the best way to try this case. >> sure. so the georgia rico statute is one of the best tools that a prosecutor can use when he or she is trying to tell a complex tore that involves multiple defendants who did various acts towards a common goal and that's exactly what you see here in terms of the conspiracy to overturn the results of the georgia election. you have 19 defendants, all of whom had a part or are alleged to have a part in effectuating the fraud. >> on one hand i've read if it gets to trial, it's almost an easier guilty verdict than what jack smith's trying to do, but is it harder to get this case to trial? >> if it remains at 19 co-defendants, sure. that's cumbersome, but we all know as prosecutors that that number often narrows. many people who are indicted are better off if they plead guilty and cooperate because there are incentives built into

attorney chuck rosenberg.yne, the ogistical question the defendants are facing in terms of the surrender, when, where, they have to do it before august 25th, that's ten days, what do we know, what do we -- we may need to find out from prosecutors, who is cutting a deal? >> reporter: the biggest thing we know right now is that everything is on the table. that's number one. two, these discussions are actively happening. when i say everything is on the table, i mean when i spoke with the sheriff and speaking with other officials who have knowledge of how these things play out, that means there's a possibility of fingerprints, mugshots and the possibility of surrendering at the county jail, rather than the courthouse. there are a number of people taking part in the conversations. we are talking about the d.a.'s office, the sheriff's office, who provides security for these things. then, of course, the defendants' attorneys along with a judge who has been assigned to this case. i can say that from my conversations w

attorney and senior fbi official chuck rosenberg. e helps his co-defendants out? what's the likelihood his co-defendants actually make bond? what is the process beyond that for the former president? >> right, mika. lots of good questions. so the likelihood that he helps anybody but himself i think is relatively small. these bonds require only 10% down. i don't think it is going to be all that difficult for each of his co-defendants to meet that threshold. it is a standard, typical way of making bond. there is a similar statutory scheme in the federal system. i want to make one observation, and i think it is keeping with the theme so far this morning at the top of this hour. there was a wonderful federal judge in the eastern district of virginia where i practiced, albert v. bryan jr. he was on the bench almost 50 years. his father before him for almost 40. i was arguing once at a detention hearing that a defendant was a risk of flight, ought to be held. judge bryan wryly observed that the real problem with that particular defendant was

along with jonathan lemire and joe and me, we have elysor dan, and also charlie sykes and also chuck rosenberg. and as we were just mentioning, as he awaits possible charges in georgia, which could happen this week, trump is already testing the limits of a new protective order put in place in the federal election interference case against him. this is the one of course playing out in washington, d.c. now, in court on friday, judge tanya chutkan ruled that going forward trump's lawyers must review any notes he takes while looking at sensitive materials to make sure that he is not copying down personal information about witnesses. she also prohibited him from having a phone out while reviewing those materials for the same reason. prosecutors requested the order after trump started attacking potential witnesses, special counsel jack smith and even the judge herself on social media. friday judge chutkan warned that while he has a first amendment right to free speech, that right is not absolute. shed a the more a party makes inflammatory statements, greater you are against city that we proceed to t

attorney, senior fbi official, chuck rosenberg. chuck, good morning. great to see you.4th, on the eve of super tuesday, obviously a little later but not a lot later than jack smith was hoping for, and much, much earlier than trump's defense team had requested. what do you make of the march 4th choice? >> makes a lot of sense to me, willie. plenty of time for the defense to prepare its case, to do what they have to do. you know, sometimes where you stand depends on where you sit. i spent a lot of time as a federal prosecutor in the eastern district of virginia, so-called rocket docket. cases moved expeditiously. continuances were extraordinarily rare. six months would have been an ordinary window of time to set a case for trial. so strikes me as appropriate. let me also add something, willie. the january 6th case in federal court in the district of columbia is a one defendant, four charge indictment. so it's really not all that complex. if the defense attorneys want to get ready for trial, my advice, and i don't mean this in a snarky way, is to sit down and start reading

. >> we were joking yesterday about chuck rosenberg, about how micah wanted to talk to me about like,it was important what other people are saying. >> 7:30 -- eight at night and i was listening to some music to kind of forget about the day, the newsday, and i said, we don't need to hear what they say. it doesn't matter what they say. what matters is what goes on in the courtrooms. and we all know where this is going. and you look at these poll numbers, and we all know where this is going. and i think the question micah is how long does tim scott, again, somebody i have that is a very strong candidate, how long this temps got humiliate himself by pretending the donald trump did nothing wrong? only to see me lead himself by talking about hunter biden taking seven billion dollars and saying nothing about jared kushner's three billion dollars. only one person and that is coming from the united states, and the rest coming from people that he's working with in the gulf. how long are they going to paint these false equivalency's. i'm not saying terry did anything illegal, but if you're going

something chuck rosenberg said to me years ago, not all criminals are smart. what do you see in this sort of tapestry of trump's dominance in the recruitment of fake electors and slates of fake electors? >> donald trump has two defenses that he's trying to trod out. one is, there was no bad criminal act. all i did was speech. and as you rightly point out, boy, the indictment just shows his hands were thick in it, not just speech but active involvement in orchestrating all of these different plots, whether it's fake electors, whether it's disrupting the count on january 6th. so many different things. so that then leads trump to pivot to a different defense which is, i didn't have the criminal intent, the bad mens rea, i legitimately thought i won. the clips you showed are devastating proof trump knew and had to know something else. now i suppose he still has a defense is everyone is saying that but i believed something else. that is not a defense. as a criminal defendant, you don't just get to invent your own reality and say, well, i lacked the criminal intent