i'm not a church scholar star in but the church in brazil is not the church in ireland is not the church in china is not that you know in the philippines i mean it's a church of pluralism and diversity and that has not been now we're living in a global truly global world and so that has to be. you know dealt with so we need a pope who speaks to golly go speak zulu who speaks portuguese as well as spanish you know i think that there it's the only way the only way the church can survive really i do believe is through there has to be a revolution otherwise. what's happening is that people are just simply breaking off and not paying attention in a pope has you know has followers yes you could see them you know cheering in st peter's square or whatever but the pope's did great damage in the past you know when j.p. to who was beloved in parts of latin america you know. but when he came and closed down the seminaries that were teaching liberation theology and orientation to. a theology of everyday life of the ology they could deal with human suffering at the ology that would be open to women an

only one speaking for the church. tavis: i want to phrase this in the right way. i do not in any way want to be disrespectful to the pope. do you buy his reasons for stepping down? do you buy the reasons for his stepping down? as you know, there have been all kinds of articles, people digging into this to figure out why he would do this at this time, as it is so on president. and nobody saw this coming. we know the turmoil the church has been going through. i am curious about the timing and the rationale. >> of course, of course. as you said, people are stunned. this is a big surprise. it has not happened again in 600 years, so there are a lot of questions about timing. he made this announcement two days before ash wednesday, before easter, which led people to speculate, why would you be stepping down at the holiest time of year? why would you not wait until after easter? and they continue to have these questions. i think it is interesting. i do not think he is stepping down because of health reasons, and i do not thi

i'm not a church scholar star in but the church in brazil is not the church in ireland is not the church in china is not that you know in the philippines i mean it's a church of pluralism and diversity and that has not been now we're living in a global truly global world and so that has to be you know dealt with so we need a pope who speaks to golly go speak zulu who speaks portuguese as well as spanish you know i think that there it's the only way the only way the church can survive really i do believe is through there has to be a revolution otherwise. what's happening is that people are just simply breaking off and not paying attention and a pope has you know has followers yes you could see them you know cheering in st peter's square or whatever but the pope's did great damage in the past you know when j.p. to who was beloved in parts of latin america you know. but when he came and closed down the seminaries that were teaching liberation theology and orientation to. a theology of everyday life of the ology they could deal with human suffering at the ology that would be open to women an

i'm not a church scholar star in but the church in brazil is not the church in ireland is not the church in china is not that you know in the philippines i mean it's a church of pluralism and diversity and that has not been now we're living in a global truly global world and so that has to be you know dealt with so we need a pope who speaks to golly go speak zulu who speaks portuguese as well as spanish you know i think that there it's the only way the only way the church can survive really i do believe is through there has to be a revolution otherwise. what's happening is that people are just simply breaking off and not paying attention in a pope has you know has followers yes you could see them you know cheering in st peter's square or whatever but the pope's did great damage in the past you know when j.p. to who was beloved in parts of latin america you know. but when he came and closed down the seminaries that would teaching liberation theology and orientation to. a theology of everyday life of the ology that could deal with human suffering at the ology that would be open to women an

well, first of all, the church is a circular church in design. typically, this is not an orthodox architectural design. there is a church at thessalonica, greece, which is circular, goes back at least 1,500 years. most orthodox church is a rectangular or crystal formed with a dome or domes on top. but we do have a church which fits into the niche of this landscape. this is organic architecture. we took this area of the environment and we finished the church into this area. and this is as if the church comes out of the ground, as if it's growing here as part of nature. and we have this church circular in order to bring people closer to the altar. a rectangular church would bring them farther from the altar. and what we have here is a church which was constructed in two years. reid & tarix were the architectural firm. robert alder was the designer. and we started november 1961 and we finished in october 1963. we have 12 pillars in the church. believe it or not, they were poured six days like the six days of creation with a slick form method of cons

and i see the church alive. we also must thank our lord because of the beautiful day that he gave us today. it doesn't even look like winter. like paul the apostle in the passage we just heard, i also feel in my heart that i have to thank god, mostly, because he guides us and he allows the church to grow. he gives us his word and this feeds the faith of his people. right now, my soul is getting larger and it embraces the church all over the world and i thank god for the news that over the years of peter's ministers, i obtained on faith in jesus the lord and on charity within the body of the church. which lives in love and in hope. and this opens us to the -- our home in heaven. i want to hold everybody in prayer. i welcome every meeting, every pastoral visit. i collect everything in prayer to give it to the lord and we have full knowledge of his will with a spiritual awareness and we can beheave in a way that's worthy of his love and so that we can have fruits in every good work that we do. right now, i have gre

i'm not a church scholar star in but the church in brazil is not the church in ireland is not the church in china is not that you know in the philippines i mean it's a church of pluralism and diversity and that has not been now we're living in a global truly global world and so that has to be you know dealt with so we need a pope who speaks to golly go speak zulu who speaks portuguese as well as spanish you know i think that there it's the only way the only way the church can survive really i do believe is through there has to be a revolution otherwise. what's happening is that people are just simply breaking off and not paying attention in a pope has you know has followers yes you could see them you know cheering in st peter's square or whatever but the pope's did great damage in the past you know when j.p. to who was beloved in parts of latin america you know. but when he came and closed down the seminaries that would teaching liberation theology and orientation to. a theology of everyday life of the ology they could deal with human suffering at the ology that would be open to women an

he was not the only one insider church beating people up but he is the head of the church at church for it is quite remarkable to think that behavior can go on and some of the people who were beaten and others were confined there are reeducation camps and in different locations especially in the desert compound with the clergy of scientology had the quarter's on the compound there are two double wide trailers and married together. at one point* david decided he would start sending top-level executives there for reeducation all the furniture is taken out, they slept on the floor with sleeping bags only allowed out once a day for a shower and during that time what is the crimes and what is going the wrong there was a lot more than 100 people at one point* the top tier of management was come to find -- confined to this had gone on for years my friend could tell you stories of interviewing him years ago but he has been locked up seven years. i speak as an image -- amateur but my understanding of the 501c3 that the church was given, there are layers of accountability and responsibility. one

given to the church. all of that falls under the jurisdiction of religious literature. >> before he disappeared, indicated publicly they had spent $1 instigating the irs before that was given. who follows up on some unlike that? >> you know, i think first of all when you have a situation like that, it's an ideal place for an investigative reporter to go when in ca have many of the same questions that everybody has about scientology. i think the windows need to be opened and i've tried is much as i possibly can to crack them open. i got very little cooperation from the church's outcome of that awareness of the public and in its public officials that we know more about it are called for. emily, please. >> have you personally been in to the data by scientology? this may be apocryphal you may know. hired 15,, 20 years ago come a time reporter had to change its name because his life became so intolerable. i know they presented the publication of your book in and grab. the second part of my question is talking

churches competed for relics and even stole them from each other.a vision commanded us to steal it," they would say, or, "the saint told us she was unhappy in that place." if relics gave spiritual comfort, images--carved or painted-- instructed and terrified. to a largely illiterate congregation, images were essential to convey the church's message. in burgundy, autun cathedral is one of the most important pilgrimage churches on the route to santiago. autun was lucky to be able to attract to its workshop in around the year 1130 a sculptor of genius. we know his name, which is a rarity in the largely anonymous art of the early middle ages. he is called gislebertus, and he signed himself, "gislebertus hocfecit," "gislebertus did this." he has a style distinctly his own-- vivid and with a feeling for expressive detail unprecedented in romanesque sculpture. his tympanum shows the last judgment, and in the center is the serene figure of christ the judge, the focus around which the whole composition of the tympanum turns. at its edges, angels blow the fin

meanwhile, he tried to win back anglicans to the church. the ordination of female priests divided moderate and conservative anglicans for decades. eventually, anglicans let in female priests. some conservatives rejoined the catholic church over the issue. benedict let them join and keep some of their spiritual heritage. a momentous appointment -- the dick gave a german bishops top job last year, the job didn't it held before he became pope. now, he supports dialogue with anglicans. he will keep reconciliation on the next pope policy agenda. benedict has disappointed many who hoped for more. eight years of pope benedict xvi had not united the divided face. >> joining us now in studio is the editor-in-chief of the catholic news agency in germany. how do you think history will look back at benedict's time as pope? >> i do not think of that this will be seen as one of the strong points in his papacy. i think he had a much stronger points, like the discussion with atheists, with philosophers. he himself is more a philosopher and theologian than

episcopal church, is divided over female bishops and same-sex relationships. that didn't stop british lawmakers who voted overwhelming in favor of a bill to legalize same-sex marriage. the legislation is championed by prime minister david cameron. charlene israel has the story. >> the yeas to the right, 400, the nays to the left, 475. so the yeas have it. >> reporter: it is the first of several votes required for the u.k.'s marriage bill. if it becomes law, the legislation would enable same-sex couples to marry in both civil and religious ceremonies, as long as the religious institution consents. >> today was do we accept the fundamental principle of gay people being allowed to call their union a marriage. i'm glad that we do. >> marriage is a great institution, and it should be there for people who are gay, as well as people who aren't. that's why i have pioneered this change. >> reporter: the vote went cameron's way, but it cost him popularity within his own party. more than half of his 303 conservative lawmakers voted against or abstained from voting for th

, perhaps even democratization in the church. a pope who respects the human equality of all persons, man and women, and begins to make suitable changes in the church in that direction. >> but father morozowich says whoever is chosen is not likely to make sweeping changes. >> so a new pope will bring new vigor, will bring his personality, his personal gifts. he will continue, though, the tradition of the church. >> people of other faiths say the selection of a new pope matters to them too. >> the quality of catholic-jewish relations has been a kind of litmus test for us in terms of the openness of peoples of different religions to the jewish community and to cooperative understanding and endeavor, and therefore it feels of vital concern to us. >> what he says matters in a lot of communities and so the stature of the pope is extremely important in that sense, but also the fact that we live in a very small world when it comes to interaction. >> the heart and soul of humanity is lived out among people of faith in every tradition, and

c-span: exactly where is the church? >> guest: my church is in jamaica, queens. it is in--about seven minutes from kennedy airport and within about 20 minutes from la guardia and sits in an area called st. albans, which has historically been one of those communities that was for upward mobile people. it's a pretty middle-class community. yet many of the amenities and services, quality of education, not nearly what it ought to be. and that's what we focused on, and--and it's been a very successful ministry for the last 23 years. c-span: you have how many seats in your church? >> guest: twenty-five hundred, 2,500 seats in the church, and we run three services a sunday there: 6:30 in the morning, 8:30, 11:15. i'm at all three services, and i preach two of them. and then i run another service for young people where we have 1,500 kids, 700 a week or so attending. and that's run at the same time as the 11:15 service in the old church building. c-span: how many churches in america have 2,500 seats in them? >> guest: oh, i would think--oh, i would not have any idea, but

to guide the church throughout the tum multis of history. there's been a lot of tumultuous periods in the history of the church. but by making this statement or making this move, this decision, the pope is reminding us, well, it's not the pope that runs the church. it's really god. we really believe that the pope is the work of god. and benedict has been reminding us that he -- >> he's also been given remarkably personal insights particularly in the audience about this decision that was made, that when he was chosen back in 2005, he wondered why this was being asked of him. he felt it was a great weight that was being placed on his shoulders and i can tell having gone to both the audience and the mass there in rome on ash wednesday, he looked to me like a man who was so at peace with his decision and he looked like the weight of the world had listen lifted off his shoulders, whatever prayer and consideration he had gone through, this was the right decision for him. and liz, as you have gone through the last several days, was that your impres

from a great distance, this binding, this marriage, commitment to the church, the leader of the church and as the holy father. by tomorrow evening, that ring will be one of the last things that pope benedict divests himself us as he leaves the papacy, that ring, and all of the ring before will be destroyed. >> destroyed using a silver papal hammer and there will be no ring until the conclave and the election of a new pope, it was very interesting that here in new york our cardinal dolan said that he and other cardinals will sing a psalm as they file into the sistine chapel. and is that something that's typical, liz, is that traditional, or is that unique to this conclave? >> i think in particular, these psalm of pent nance is part of the lenten a framework. but, also, it's part of the sistine chapel proper. indeed, as you look at the ceiling, the very last images the very last prophet, then you get to that resurrection of joan in the center. it's fitting for the time, it's fitting for the space and it's fitting for this particular occasion as well. >> let me bring ann thompson back in.

i am not abandoning the church, what i am doing is serving the church in a different way. we will see if today he comes up with another very strong message to the church and to the cardinals about what he believes his mission is as well as the mission of the church. >> the number of catholics all around the cloeb, it has grown expedientially. actually almost tripleed 291 million back in 2010 to nearly 1.1 billion as of 2010 and 75.5 million of those are here in the united states. to people who are none cathol , catholic -- none cacatholic wha should they take away from today? >> that's a great question. even if you are not catholic or not christian the fact is the papalsy that is the role of the pope his office and direction that he gave to the catholic church. it is the voice to traditional values. we have in the world today. thank god we have many christian brothers and sisters of other denominations as well as faith filled people of other religions. but the strength of the papalsy is that catholics believed, in other words if you don't want to be catholic you want to kn

the church is a live body.es communion of brothers and sisters in the body of jesus christ where we are embraced. to experience the feeling is to touch with your hands his truth and your love which is the reason for the light. i love all of you and praise the light of the church today. in the last month, i have felt that my strength has diminished. and i have requested god with insistence in my prayer to illuminate me with his light to make me come to the right decision not for my own good, but for the good of the church. i have taken this tact in full awareness of the gravity and seriousness, but also with a profound serenity in my soul loving the church also means to have the courage to make difficult choices. having always before you the church and not your own. allow me now to go back to the 19th of april 2005, the seriousness of the decision then was also in the fact that from that moment on, i was committed always and forever to the lord. always to take on the ministry. he who takes on the ministry has no

. >> the old church had its gift. one thing it didn't have is the fact that the heart needs to be involved and the community needs to be involved. to answer the second question, if he lived longer, i would imagine that a lot of the pope paul vi, was a very good man. he's been compared to hamlet. however, he became nervous that the church was spinning out of control. he reserved certain items to item which he decided. that would be the breaks on vatican ii, then you find other people certainly did not enjoy what vatican ii was about, surfacing and putting the brakes on more and more. we have now a compromised second vatican counsel. >> how far into it do you think we've accomplished? >> there are certain things that stand out. number one of the celebration the central act of worship being the language of the people, being streamlined so it explains itself. you don't need someone that's commenting. the second thing is the renewal in our understanding and appreciation of scripture. that is extraordinary. we have people g

but i'm still in the church.'m just a pilgrim who is starting the last part of pilgrimage on this earth. >> i loved that line, last pilgrimage on this earth. but he is still the pope for a couple more hours. >> over the next couple of hours, i guess he has dinner, you were saying, he has a dinner and then -- >> and then retire early. >> retire early. because he can. >> because he can. we were talking earlier about what it takes to be a cardinal. mr. couple muomo, if you were n married, you could be elected pope. >> one more reason marriage brings you down. >> but if you were, they would ordain you immediately, make you a bishop -- >> so you're saying if he were not married and a priest, he could still be a pope? >> any catholic -- >> you're going to make his head so big. >> don't say it like that mocks the whole idea. you're like, if this guy could be pope, why do you even have one? >> that's why i shudder to think of it. >> i didn't bring it up. he did. >> luckily we're exempted from it. we think the church is i

to church. >> pelley: seth, thank you very much. tonight that massive manhunt continues in southern california. the police are searching for a fired los angeles cop who's accused of seeking revenge by targeting officers and their families. he's suspected of killing three people. bill whitaker gets us up to date on the search. >> reporter: it's the biggest manhunt ever in southern california and the biggest reward-- $1 million. more than 600 threw clues about fugitive ex-cop christopher dorner have poured in, but dorner continues to elude police. today, river side california d.a. paul zellerbach filed first degree murder charges against dorner for the slaying of dorner thursday. >> this individual by both his words and conduct has made it very clear to all of us that every law enforcement officer in southern california is in danger of being shot or killed. >> reporter: the area around the resort town of big bear east of l.a. remains the primary focus of the search. dorner's burned out pickup truck was found near here thursday. since

catholic countdown the final hours of pope benedict's proper see are ticking away as the church looks to restore its image marred by sexual abuse and corruption. and kept in the dark israeli and palestinian journalists find it increasingly difficult to do their job because of a media blackout imposed by both sides. live from our studios in central moscow you're watching archie with me and he said now it's four pm here in the russian capital. well syria is expected to be a key focus for talks in moscow between president putin and french leader francoise longed the near two year conflict and iran remain their biggest foreign policy divisions are two shawn thomas is following along maiden visit to the russian capital. it's certainly going to be an interesting day. alond has come to moscow for the first time to discuss trade relations and also to improve relations between the two countries as there are some tensions between the two but the main points of interest for russia are what's happening in iran in syria and in mali let's break that down for you first of all about the syria issue b

theodore insists the spilling of blood strengthens the church. >> through the blood, the church will be a live. it will be strong. it will be effective. in their society. >> reporter: the rise of the muslim brotherhood has actually helped foster greater church unity. >> we have seen some large inner denominational prayer services of late. how do you feel about those, and what do you think is going to happen in the future? more of the same? >> i hope that they, that all of the christians, are one. this is my dream. and also this is what we find in the heart of jesus christ, to be one. the church to be one. >> reporter: and what bible verse encourages the new pope when he faces difficulties and dispair? he says it is 1 corinthians 13: 8. >> love never ends or fails. everything must be based on love. it is between two friends. my ministry, my serving. the church in every field must be based on love. why? because god is love. >> reporter: he desires prayer for egypt as christians stand on the promises of the book of isaiah, 19. >> this chapter, le bless my people, egypt. >> george: bless

i think it is a time of unprecedented change for the catholic church. don't know if the faithful knows exactly what d to do with this right now. >> wendy: pope john paul ii was very ill and stayed in. do you think there is something else? >> there may very well be. but part of the idea of the pope is the pope shows us how to live and how to die. it might have been the unprecedented challenges this particular pope has had to face. >> wendy: there is a lot of talk about the pope, the next one coming from south america or south africa. what effect would that have on the church? >> it would be wonderful. i suspect it will not happen. i think the conclave might argue there are challenges in north america, as well as europe, and they need a pope that can be focused. >> wendy: so you think the pope will come from europe? >> i suspect the pope will be from italy. italy. >> wendy: really. the church has been harmed with sex scandals, and is there an opportunity here to change that image? >> i do think so. i think we'll choose a pope that is extremely conservativ

facing the church. they'll speak in general about concepts, concerns and in a way rather broadly to look at what the needs of the church will be, before they actually enter into the conclave. the conclave itself is governed by a very strict ritual, so once they enter into the sistine chapel and the doors are closed, there's not a lot of -- it won't look like the halls of congress. it's a strict ritual of placing their votes one by one in each ballot. as the world is watching for white smoke, they'll be one by one presenting their ballots each time. they go in order of president dense and seniority as they present votes one by one. >> in essence as we're sitting here, prior to the conclave we'll be understanding what the most important issues are as they perceive them in the catholic church prior to them going in? >> they probably won't have opportunities to speak publicly because even the general congregations are closed door. they will have a number of consultants they can name, a number of priests, pe

to the church is the spiritual but in spite of that. relations have left me wondering if the holy see has been blind the world is rapidly changing and that the catholic church has failed to keep up pace sure it has seen a fair number of ups and downs as well as in two thousand year long history but there is opinion that perhaps taking an unpleasant development sweeping it under the carpet and sealing it with the people ring for secrecy in the tradition better left in the past in rome. well barbara doris the outreach director of the survivors network of those abused by priests says the church must persecute child offenders with the organization in order to win back the public support. how can you trust an institution that will continue to put the needs of predators above the safety of children and until that changes i don't see how any responsible parent can just blindly trust that the church will do the right thing the people that can protect the children are the bishops we have police and prosecutors who can arrest predators but often

conference on the church in the americas.ne, if people don't encounter christ and if you people who are leaders in catholic church in so to speak, if you haven't encountered christ, if you are not living a pure holy life, rig lousily so and joyfully so, the rest of the programs don't matter that much. today in that statement, you see a window in pope's life. and when i met him in october i thanked him. not most creative thing. but i thanked him for jesus of nazareth, the books he has written. he gave me a book of appreciation, you get it. this is about jesus. not about me. that's the statement today. that is what is happening. >> bret: so, you know, there are people out there who say there is more to this. obviously, the people who look at the catholic church with skepticism, they don't fully know about the vatican. there are a lot of things that people don't know about the vatican. you covered this for a long time. your thoughts about the process and what this means today for catholic church. going forward. >> a day every ad

he studied theology and rose quickly through the ranks of the church. he became known for his humility and develop a large following. at world youth day in cologne, his mission was to unite faith with reason. the pope wanted to promote inter-faith the dialogue as the relationship became strained. he downgraded muslims with a controversial comment about islam in 2006. while he professed respect for jews, he created an uproar when he revoked the excommunication of rebel bishops, among them a conservative who denies the holocaust. perhaps his most testing time, allegations surfaced that catholic priests had sexually abused and raped children for decades and it was tolerated by church superiors. in 2011, he returned to germany and he told parliament that religion had lost its meaning for many people. the most recent controversy was the saw the pointing to corruption in the highest echelon of the church. >> all three monotheistic religions go back to the same origin with abraham being a father. nevertheless, relations between judaism, islam, and christianity

for tainting the image of the church is the deciding factor in abandoning catholicism. there's another school girl who disappeared in the vatican twenty years ago and they say they found the remains. police are leading the investigation here but instead of helping them. and on top of all those cases of. this is just disgusting the list of controversial events involving catholic priests or vatican officials reads like a tabloid reports of sex abuse pedophilia accusations alleged large scale corruption and possible ties with the mafia while the media especially in italy has been having a field day with the scandals the vatican other state silent. but those things may be looking rather grim for the seat of st peter's at a first glance there's still a chance the catholic church can make a comeback. with the church would be splitting. but there. could be strong with a come to reform because. the power. of the church is the spiritual but in spite of that reality relations have left me wondering if the holy see has been blind the world is rapidly changing and that the catholic

>> i would judge it by the state of the church and the health of the church. i think it's fair to say at this point this is not a healthy time for the roman catholic church particularly in the united states where you have 77 million catholic, two-thirds of them no longer go to church regularly. >> ding, ding, ding. >> that's very common. half of that number don't even call themselves catholic any more. we're definitely in a crisis mode. i think there's been too much stress on the pelvic zone issues and that's all folks are hearing about the church and so they almost have been made into an idol those teaching, how you feel about those teachings is determining whether you're in or out. >> is the focus on culture war issue, pelvic zone issues as you talk about in the realm of birth control, premarital sex, gay and lesbian relationships is that driven by a press that can only view this through this political lens or driven by a church putting emphasis on it? >> there's a little bit of both. i go -- people that follow me on twitter know i go to a latin traditional

the church is dying where you are. the church is alive where we are. the question of what's the growing end of the church and how do you address this faith deficit in the historic way of catholicism, the western world, is going to be high on the agenda, it would seem to me, of the cardinals meeting in conclave and in the informal conversations which let's not forget began about six hours ago that will precede the formal meetings before the conclave is closed. >> you've touched on something that ann thompson, you know very well, that there is a sight of this that is political. not in the grungy sense of the word, but in the larnler sense that there are factions, correct, and as you have been covering this in the past with john paul ii and the asinges of benedict xvi, you have a feel for how that work as well. >> well, i think the thing -- the thing for people to understand here, andrea, is that there is a clear difference between what some of the people in the pews want and what the leadership believes in. you know, there's a lot of speculation today. w

though the dutch reformed church and its more conservative offshoot, the christian reformed church, is still a strong presence here, grand rapids today is also home to 82 catholic parishes, 5 mosques, 2 synagogues, and hindu, buddhist and sikh temples. interfaith dialogue would have been considered unacceptable by many here in the past. but in the last year, with support from the mayor and a wide range of community leaders, grand rapids has held 250 events aimed at deepening interfaith understanding. the effort resulted in some strange sights like this one -- a muslim imam preaching on christian scripture at the sunday morning service to a united church of christ congregation. >> if we can make this kind of thing happen in grand rapids, then i think that can be a model for it happening in other communities and really a model for the nation. >> reporter: grand rapids has become a microcosm of global religious diversity. its interfaith project is unique because it includes not only churches and religious organizations, but a public university, the art museum, the community theater, even

most churches are quiet, most churches are ritualistic.he emotion - the people who would, in everyday life, pass each other up or so forth - they're there together, and they're letting all this tension out. this is cathartic for them. >> it was so amazing to be there. i mean, oftentimes they were waiting for us, so we didn't know when we were going to get to interview them. so i said, "the hell with it" - i guess i didn't say that; it was a church. but i went out and said, "well, i'm going to sit through the 11:00 service", and i loved it! the singing, and it was packed, it was hot, but that emotional, experiential thing that you felt there was very, very cathartic - it's a way of releasing those kinds of tensions and feeling spiritually renewed. and we'll come back to cecil later in the course, but i asked him very up-front, "what's important to you, religious doctrine or religious experience?" and he's very hard on the experience. he says, "yeah, experience. we've got to get people feeling, and then the belief part will take care of itse

church to sink.y was referring not just to the usual challenges of the church but to some of the scandals, some of the difficulties that have rocked this church. how do you think his papacy has dealt with them and how does the next pope have to deal with these scandals? >> those are two very good questions. i think his papacy has dealt with them as well as he could. i think the instrumentalities, he has used them. he's done everything at he could do, i believe, to take care of this. i think as we go on and trying to figure out how best to serve god's people, how best to present the church in this world of ours, probably his success is going to have to do what we did 50 years before pope benedict came. the church needs that every few years. >> what does that mean? >> it means to bring us up to date. the doctrines never change. but the way we present them has to change. the way we talk to people because the people have changed. the people won't listen to 100 years ago. >> reporter: let me ask you about

chose to emphasize the living reality of the church, the living reality of the church. >> part of whatcate was the continuity. that's at the heart of the office of pope and i think he was saying to all of us in this very gentle way, the church goes on. i have served. i've done my best. it's now time in my judgment to move on, but what continues is the gospel, the work of the church and just the way he has presented himself has highlighted that. >> i think he also, though, was deeply moved and he said those words and this is not an emotional man. this is not an italian. this is a german, and he -- and he has seen all those people including a lot of young people and babies and all that and he's been saying over and over, this is a living church. this is -- this is a body -- this is the mystical body, and i think that that is something that really struck him too so that he's developed an affection for the people in the same way they have developed one for him. >> the pope now reaching that helipad right now. he'll get on that helicopter as we said for the short 15-minute ride accompanied