and chutkan draws that line very clearly. she says she is conducting a courtroom proceeding, not an election. and there is a presumption in criminal cases, it is an important part of the system, this is that the proceedings should be as public as possible. we don't close our courtrooms in america. when someone is on trial the public as an added and to observe if they are interested. there are exceptions involving grand jury material, and those did not apply here. so what judge chutkan ultimately said to donald trump is, look, you're asking for special treatment and i'm not going to get it. it would be election interference to withhold documents from the public that they would be entitled to see in any other case. i'm not giving you that special treatment here. and that is what donald trump objects to. so violently, and this whole proceeding. that judge chutkan simply is not giving him special treatment. >> you know, joyce, something that really struck a chord with me was this. we are four years out, almost five from january 6

trump's team said that judge chutkan should do the same. judge chutkan disagree. judge chutkan said, if i were to change the ordinary schedule in order to not drop this before the election. she says that would be election interference. it's a very much a rorschach test yes, it is. >> all right. elie honig. thanks so much for the perspective. really appreciate it. in the race for the white house. both presidential campaigns are targeting battleground michigan today this our vice president kamala harris is gonna be speaking to voters in grand rapids and then this evening, trump will be back in detroit just a week. you may remember after criticizing the city while he was there for another event down terms of the polling, the latest poll that we have out of michigan shows trump with a slight edge over harris. but as you see there there is no clear leader. >> this is about more than just one state though, michigan as part of that so-called blue wall trio along with wisconsin and pennsylvania the three states vote together more often than not. and anyone who's studied t

what judge chutkan decides will determine if the case survives. what you decide at the ballot box will determine if donald trump will ever be held accountable for his crimes against our democracy. joining me now is katie phang, trial attorney and host of "the katie phang" show. hugo lowell correspondent for "the guardian" and michael steele, the former chairman of the rnc. katie, i want to start with you. here is the filing. i've been reading through it as fast as i can. i'm sure you're got an lot further than i have and understand it a lot more thoroughly. tell us what is new here and what is new here that judge chutkan will have to deal with in determining whether these are official acts? >> yes, joy. it's a 165-page filing. we knew that. we knew that because previously jack smith as special counsel indicated that he had complied with instructions to be able to file a redacted version of the document. and it had to be filed under seal. meaning we could not initially see it because until judge chutkan made a determination, none of us will be able

judge chutkan is reading it all, so she will make those determinations. i personally believe that there are there is enough evidence to support the continuation of this case. and judge chutkan will ultimately find that it can go forward. >> all right. at least adamson. thank you so much for your analysis there. we appreciate it. >> thanks so much for having me, jessica. >> there'll be right back the fund experienced the cnn magic wall in the palm of your hand, get live results expert insights and an immersive election experience. >> the magic wall, find it in the cnn app today stay tuned to learn more about this limited time offer from renewal by anderson when it comes to our homes, we only want the very best particularly when it comes to choosing replacement windows and doors, high i'm an romer thrilled to be with nick from renewal by anderson. thanks. and we believe that everyone deserves to have windows and doors that look great. stand the test of time and don't break the bank and with are unpredictable weather. i got to tell you quality and durability

judge chutkan said that's quite unusual but she let them go first. the effect of that now is we essentially have jack smith's case at least on paper, at least the parts that haven't been redacted 30-some days before the election. >> there is no question this jack smith's only real opportunity to try this case in the eyes of the public before the election. >> bret: 34 days before the election. this is 165-page filing by special counsel jack smith the parts here, excerpt. three days before election day p 1, person one described the defendant, which is former president trump's plan to a private gathering of supporters and what trump is going to do is just declare victory, right? is he going to declare victory. that doesn't mean he is the winner. is he just going to say he is the winner. it goes on. but truth social, the former president posted moments ago. democrats are weaponizing the justice department against me because they know i am winning. they are desperate to prop up their failing candidate, kamala harris, the doj pushed out latest hit job toda

i got chutkan . >> no, no, a lot to unpack. i think it is interesting though that chutkan said to not release this would in and of itself be election interference . >> this is one of those situations, and i remember facing this as a prosecutor when we had sensitive investigations going on in some proximity to the election. you are kind of if you do, if you don't. if you release too close, you get criticized, if you don't and it comes out after, you get criticized. people should have known that. she has said all alone alone, i will not let this trial schedule be dictated by your political interests of those are irrelevant as a legal matter. in response to donald trump, seeking a longer stay at the release of this. she said, either way, this could be criticized, the same criticism you are leveling donald trump of election interference. >> i know we have got to. stormy daniels. i am sorry. he is doing it again, real quick, on stormy daniels and the incentives he is giving her now ? >> certainly, it was financial. it is always fina

it was judge chutkan's decision to unseal this document. she was doing was following the law and treating donald trump like any other criminal defendant. >> tim, let's talk about the real nut of this, which is new revelations about mike pence. mike pence did not testify. he refused to testify to the january 6 committee that you worked on. now we have his sworn testimony to a grand jury and notes. if true, it's devastaing if it can be introduced in a trial. this will go to the supreme court again. there's an argument over whether there's any instance where a president and vice president are acting in an unprofessional -- unofficial role. >> it's meat on the bones that the select committee put in place. we told the story, this narrative of an intentional multi-part plan led by the former president to disrupt the joint session and prevent the transfer of power. the pleading puts an important new meat on those bones. we didn't talk to the vice president. he refused to speak with the committee. he provides evidence very, very consistent with the

jack smith said a few weeks ago, judge chutkan, we want to go first and judge chutkan actually said, well, that's quite unusual, but she let them go first and the effect of that now is we essentially have jack smith's case at least on paper, at least the parts that have not been redacted or to 30 some days before the election. whereas we might not otherwise have it hadn't now, donald trump's team will respond to this. they will essentially all the stuff that he is accused of doing was all part of his official job, including under mike pence conversations and jake, i should note like you a mountain all the way through this thing. but just to give you a taste of what paul and others are looking at it, there is a list of conversations fairly early on in this brief, it's just a bullet point list, a page and more of conversations that donald trump had with mike pence and some of that i believe gives us new detail for example, at one point, donald trump tells mike pence, according to jack smith, to treat it not as a lost the election, not as the lost just as an intermission. so we are goin

to quote judge chutkan procedurally irregular approach. so i respectfully disagree with the secretary. there and so what happens now yeah. so judge chutkan has to sift through this. there has to be briefing from both sides. so donald trump's team will get a chance to weigh in what they're arguing about is how much of what remains of jack smith's indictment? can stay in the case moving forward, whatever judge chutkan decides that will then be appealed. donald trump has the right to appeal that to the court of appeals and then potentially to the u.s. supreme court. and the point of that is we're not going to get a trial in this case anytime soon. i think we are six months to a year or more away from a trial. if the indictment survives fives appellate review. >> all right. elie honig always good to see you. thank you so much thanks. >> all right. >> despite his legal troubles, trump does remain neck and neck with kamala harris would just a month until election day ahead. we're going to run the numbers on where both candidates stand in the han

judge tanya chutkan unsealed. special counsel, jack smith's argument for reviving the election interference case against donald trump. now smith as reframe the charges in a way he hopes will now conform to the supreme court's ruling on presidential immunity. and was stan what will all but certainly be more scrutiny from the nine justices. the brief filed under seal last week is heavily redacted, but still reveals plenty of new evidence that smith intends to use some of it, apparently confirming the worst about the former president's reaction been learning his vice president and his family had been forced to flee a mob of trump's supporters bent on hanging him. that's pence in his security detail and his family fleeing right now i'm quoting from the filing upon receiving a phone call alerting him that pence to take had been taken to a secure location. person 15 russia the dining room to inform the defendant and hopes that the defendant would take action to ensure pen to safety. instead, after person 15 delivered th

judge chutkan has the really hard job. she has to implement the rule. the government is trying to give her a path, a road map to implement the rule in a way that they believe means that mr. trump still may be prosecuted for all of these unofficial acts as a candidate. >> interesting. chuck, boy, this goes into the relationship with pence in a big way. the different efforts in different states to try to change the outcome. also, trump's tweets, making it very clear, by the way, that it was him tweeting. he goes through tweets as a candidate, casting doubt on election integrity. tweets making false claims of election fraud. tweets and retweets attacking those speaking the truth about the election. tweets exhorting individuals to travel to washington, d.c., for the save america rally. tweets involving pence's role on january 6th. the defendant's 2:24 p.m. tweet on january 6th. i mean, it is very specific that these tweets were done by trump, but my question is, how can you separate his official capacities to his unofficial ca

like after the supreme court's immunity ruling and its judge chutkan's job to look at the supreme court ruling, look at the case, and determine what survives. but it was her choice to make this public again, just over a month before the election. >> and how is the trump campaign responding? >> well, of course they're not happy and they are pivoting to the political former president trump calling this quote a hit job. and they're trying to tie it to the campaign and even to last night's debate in a statement from the campaign, they're saying, quote, the release of this falsehood-ridde n unconstitutional january 6 brief immediately falling to moses disaster harris debate performance is another obvious attempt by the harris biden regime to undermine american democracy and interfere in this election. so i'll repeat, even though this was the special counsel's argument, it was the judge's decision to release this, and i also want to note the supreme court really had a big role in delaying possible trial here because they waited from december of last year all the way to july to weigh in on thi

>> well, this was up to the judge, tanya chutkan. it was her discretion to release this enormous filing from the special counsel and special counsel short time ago, seven weeks ago, they submitted this approximately 200 page argument laying out what they believe their case looks like after the supreme court's immunity ruling and its judge chutkan's job to look at the supreme court ruling, look at the case, and determine what survives, but it was her choice to make >> believe falling to moses, disastrous debate performance is another obvious attempt by the harris biden regime to undermine american democracy and interfere in this election. so i'll repeat that even though this was the special council's argument, it was the judge's decision to release this, and i also want to note the supreme court really had a big role in delaying possible trial here because they waited from december of last year all the way to july to weigh in on this immunity issue, making it impossible for special counsel smith to bring this case to trial. and this t

judge chutkan unseal emotion and the lids go absolutely nuts.eapo the d.o.t. has been weaponized.will expose it all in moments. but first, the right man for the job is the focus of tonights we"angle." just as we saw during covid, the people called experts are often wrong. cloth masks were an social distancing is based in science. the vaccine stops infection and transmission. well, they couldn't have beentrm more wrong. after january 6th, they werees confident trump was finished.s o >> do democrats have the vote to mark the end of donald trump's political career? >> that could be the political into his political career. >> a trial alone even without a conviction would be enough to end donald trump's political career. >> laura: and now they were assessment of j.d. pic vance asp pick, they were againtr umparticularly wrong. >> j.d. vance here, so donald trump's running mate having some people wondering whether he should be replaced.kw >> j.d. vance parade will note. live on.hard i don't know who fancies in the end. we wila l see. >> it is hard for donald trump to admit hnow.e made a

they did send it back to judge tanya chutkan to decide where the lines were.they have any room for it. i'm going to read one more bit and hand it over to "deadline: white house" in talking about the tweets about mike pence. the context and content of these tweets establish that they were unofficial, jack smith argues. through the tweets the defendant was using the political pressure of his supporters and social media followers to convince pence to take an action to benefit the defendant as a candidate and help him overturn the results of the election. as discussed, the defendant played no official role in the congressional certification proceeding and was not using his tweets about pence's role to advance any executive branch or government interest. likewise, the defendant had no role in whether state legislatures might take action regarding their own electoral slates. they go on to say that this was a criminal enterprise. donald trump was not acting as the president. don't worry, there will be so much more on this. ken dilanian, thank you very much. "deadline

think the judge chutkan simply did what judges do. moving her docket along.eral courts to make document public because the public ought to be able to see what is happening in their courts. and so she did what judges do. she made the filing public, again, either way, if you do, if you don't you are accused of filing something or withholding something and people think you are acting politically. to your other point, willie, this will take a while. you are not going to have an answer by october. there may even -- by the end of october. and there may even be more appeals as judge chutkan tries to parse what remains of the indictment to determine what is inbounds and what is out of bounds. >>> coming up, donald trump recently said if he is reelected women voters won't be thinking about abortion. because they will be protected. our next guest is digging into the history of reproductive health care especially when it comes to communities of color. that conversation is straight ahead. color. that conversation is straight ahead. the market's closed. futures don't slee

what's critical is it's a what the supreme court told tread a judge chutkan needed to happen.ge chutkan, you have to make a decision as to whether or not donald trump has immunity for certain conduct that's been alleged in the indictment that's been taught to the department of justice. this is the process. the delay is at the feet of donald trump. like you said some deadlines come after the election but it just means the process proceeds. >> the clock was always going to be on the trump campaign side for running this out past election day but i think you're right when you talk about the way the supreme court has dictated this and the details jack smith included. he goes so far in here to say as trump was responding to pens being hustled out of the capital he says so what, there's another detail where he's talking about trump telling jared it doesn't matter if you won or lost the election you still have to fight like . those are comments interesting for those who are political observers but what's the legal role they play? >> the idea is it has to be based on evidence. the way

judge chutkan said that the election shouldn't have any effect on this transpires. this came from a supreme court ruling that imposed on the court to burden to sort through what are private acts and official abilities. >> vaughn, this case is about the 2020 election, years ago, but you have new reporting about the former president trump essentially attempting to sow doubt around the 2024 election. >> election interference, this trial is around the charges that he allegedly interfered in the 2020 election and tried to overturn the election results. in the last year he's been using the word election interference and making the case it's the department of justice, it's jack smith, the special counsel, judge chutkan, but also even saying it's companies like google also trying to influence this election improperly. listen to donald trump last night. he's still maintaining today that he was the rightful winner of the 2020 election and he's not steering away from that argument. >> this was a weaponization of government and that's why it was released 30 days be ever the ele

judge chutkan unseems a motion. and the libs go absolutely nuts. it's more proof that the doj has been weaponized. just as we saw during covid, the people called experts are often wrong. cloth masks work, socialted, it's based in science. the vaccine. transmission. well, they couldn't have been more wrong. then, after january 6th, they were confident that trump was finished. >> do democrats have the votes to mark the end of donald trump's political career? >> that could mean the definitive end of his political career. >> trial. >> would be enough to end political career. >> laura: now, in their assessment of j.d. vance as his vp pick they were, again, spectacularly wrong. >> j.d. vance here, donald trump's running mate, having some people wondering whether he should be replaced. >> j.d. vance not going to move on. i don't know if the end. we'll see. hard for donald trump to admitted making a mistake. a lot of republicans very unhappy right now. >> and the anti-populist republicans also embarrassed themselves anonymously telling the hill that vance'

it says likely to impact and election close in time to an election with respect to judge chutkan, she has generally been in agreement with jack smith about trying to expedite this case? not quite as extreme. for example, jack smith initially wanted a trial date five months after the indictment. judge chutkan said it for seven months after the indictment, but it's important to note in its ruling on immunity the supreme court actually went out of its way to excoriate judge chutkin for quote expediting this case without conducting adequate fact-finding and adequate legal analysis. >> okay. so if you'd take out your issues with the timeline and your issues with the style that of the way they've done this. do you think they still have a strong case against former president trump >> i want people to understand this. has been my public opinion, spoken many times on cnn, which i hold now that donald trump deserved to be indicted for january 6, he deserves to be indicted for the classified documents case at mar-a-lago. the evidence on both looks quite strong to me. but i just simply don't subs

judge chutkan will make a decision and likely it will be immediately appealed to the d.c. circuit and then to the supreme court before we can even have a conversation about what pretrial proceedings look like and what a trial would look like here. in that respect i think tom is definitely right that there is a group of people here who have not determined to prevent former president trump from seeing trial, will certainly want to narrow the conduct and have not given judge chutkan much in the way of guidance of how to do that. >> tom, putting the legal side aside for a second and to the point that you're making the republicanst , donald trump is setting the table for a big life 2.0. i take it will be immigrants who do not speak english or do not know what country they are in but somehow they will manage to vote in massive numbers for kamala harris. j.d. vance has saidla if he were in mike pence's position, he will certify the election. they are telling you how this will unfold chastened by nothing. >> reporter: they are telling that their base with their going to do. they d

>> the good news is judge chutkan has made clear. she said over and over about her case and the scheduling in her case will not yield and is not dependent on election cycle. she has put her money where her mouth is. she has set a schedule in order to do precisely what the supreme court directed her to do. litigate the issues, try to decide which of donald trump's crimes artificial acts of the u.s. president. it does not make a lot of sense in which of his crimes are not. what he should have immunity for a not have immunity for. the next stage will be to hold hearings. the interesting question is what will those hearings look like? make it look like one of two things. they could be by what we call proper. in other words jack smith has revealed the evidence and we will see more of it in the appendix coming soon. donald trump and his lawyers will file their opposition and their arguments. and then what it could look like is jet chutkan could say that i will assume that jack smith has presented. and now we can litigate and the parties ca

judge chutkan refused that and said the public has an interest of seeing it, didn't cite conventional reasons for staying the disclosure of a public judicial document. jose. >> lisa rubin, thank you so much. >>> there's a surprising new twist in the war in ukraine today. north korea has apparently sent 1,500 special forces troops to russia for training, where they will likely be deployed for combat in ukraine, according to south korea's spy agency, and south korea's national intelligence service, working with ukrainian intelligence, official technology says they have identified north korean officers on the ground in eastern ukraine supporting russian forces. nbc's daniele hamamdjian is following this for us. thank you. what exactly is this report saying? >> well, the report, according to the south korean spy agency is that russian vessels were detected between october 8th and 13, carrying as you mentioned, 1,500 north korean special forces who are now in eastern russia. it claims climatizing training in local military bases, the spy agency alleges that they have been given russian uni

and judge tanya chutkan made clear she believes the election has no bearing on how the case should be handled. >> vaughn, trump calls the timing election interference, aren't his legal moves the reason this all was delayed to this point right before the election? >> right. let's be clear, when we were talking about him disputing underlying facts of the case, donald trump has maintained that each of the actions he took were well within his right, not only as president but as somebody who continues to make the case that the 2020 election was falsely stolen from him, and we are already seeing, a month before the 2024 election, the current republican nominee lay claim to more than a dozen election interference claims he's making about this election, in which domestic actors, he has made the case, google to the secret service to the biden administration, to jack smith, to judge chutkan, they are the ones actively interfering in this election in order to manipulate and make the outcome unfair. while there is a focus on the pending criminal case for his actions after the 2020 election, he's

walk us through a little more what exactly did judge chutkan say?is all in response to donald trump's request for discovery. she said there are three out of the 14 categories of discovery that he requested that might go forward. and rejected a number of them. one that jumped out was a focus that he wanted a discovery about foreign influence in the 2020 campaign. donald trump's lawyers are trying to pivot and said forget all of that stuff he was saying about philadelphia and detroit, majority back cities, he was actually more focused on foreign interference. that's what he was actually worried about, and judge asked for discovery about foreign influence, and judge chutkan dismissed that out of hand. it doesn't match up with what he was publicly expressing at the time. that's not really the reason that he was making these false claims about election fraud, so this case is continuing to chug on, even as we are less than three weeks out from the election going forward. there's going to be a deadline just after the election for the trump team, and then t

federal judge tanya chutkan overruled trump's request to halt all releases before the election unsealings of evidence gathered by special counsel jack smith detailing alleged interference with the 2020 election. the nearly 1900 pages were mostly redacted and for the most part were previously known, including social media posts, witness transcripts from the house january 6th committee and letters from trump's legal team outlying a strategy for vice-president pence to try and block or delay the electoral college certification. now, trump today called it, quote, election hunting from deranged lunatic jack smith, judge chutkan will now take all this evidence including trump's objections and decide which, if any, criminal charges can go to trial. bret? >> bret: okay. we'll follow it all. griffs thanks. this is the first week of early voting in the key battle ground state of north carolina. residents in the western part of that state obviously still dealing with the aftermath of hurricane helene, correspondent danamarie mcnicholl reports tonight from asheville. >> reporter: two days into early

just chutkan set i will give it until november 7th.from you because we do have the vice president kamala harris and she is speaking in north carolina. we will take her comments right now. >>> this is the best of what we can do to bring federal, state and local resources together in a way that is coordinated with one purpose and one purpose only. which is bringing relief, support and help to the people who are most in need and desperate for help and desperate to be seen and heard. i just spoke with members of the national guard to thank them. they, like so many on the ground doing this work, whether it be through fema, the governor's office or state offices, many of them who are doing this work have been directly hit themselves. we were talking about people who are leaders and who are from the communities that have been hardest hit. i think we all have to recognize and thank them for the nobility of their work and their calling, which is to leave their homes, to leave their families who may need the kind of resources that they can provi

judge chutkan chose to unseal this, not jack smith. and i do take issue with the framing that this case has been delayed or as going forward at this time because of jack smith. it was delayed because the supreme court took so long to took this action. it was delayed because as the former president has sought at every angle to stop this from going forward. so i do think that personally for me, i think what jack smith has done so far is prosecuted this case honorably quickly and appropriately and the public has a right. there's a public interest in an open process which means seeing this evidence, which means moving quickly and yet that's moving quickly before an election that's what should happen that people should know what happened and get the evidence that a grand jury, as beyond probable cause, said that the former president likely committed these crimes so that people should get to trial as quickly as possible and should not be stopped because an election happens to be happening, he's a defendant first candidates how many times did

they all said well, make sure you don't get chutkan and who did i get? >> okay. so here's the thing about that. here's the thing about that. the courts are going to take care of that. we are going to take care of november. >> trump battled technical gremlins during his detroit speech when his microphone suddenly left him inaudible. we will have more on that in a moment. his surrogate and financial backer, elon musk, held a town hall in pennsylvania where he admitted to voters that his plan for the department of government efficiency will lead to job loss. >> hopefully if this comes to pass and we are able to take action, we will reduce a lot of government headcount. we are going to give like very long severance. two years or something like that. look, just go do something else is what we are going to say and you will get paid for two years, you know? >> meanwhile former president obama stumped for vp harris in arizona on friday and he focused on my character is important in a presidential candidate and compared trump to late arizona senator john mccain. >> john w

judge tanya chutkan today permitted the release. it is the argument, the legal argument, about which of the acts that donald trump allegedly committed on january 6 and before january 6 that are not official acts and, therefore, not immune in the eyes of the united states supreme court. and, sara, to your point, i mean, as much as donald trump has made attacking the media his sort of favorite line, this is something he cares about very much. "the new york times" head line on this story, quote, judge unseals new evidence in federal election case against donald trump, and it starts this way, in a sprawling legal brief partly unsealed on wednesday the special counsel jack smith laid out his case for why former president donald trump is not immune from prosecution on federal charges of plotting to overturn the 2020 election. of course, everyone is drawn to what is new in our line of work, but i take your point, sara, that it's the fact that this story is in the news that reminds me just at a visceral level which is where most people make

however, this is something that a judge judge tanya chutkan has decided is appropriate for the public to see and there's still there's still, obviously there's a lot of information you can look at some of the pages didn't here that are redacted. there's details in here that are going to be will not be public. but one of the things that is notable in here already, just from reading just the first few pages of this this document is you can see the emphasis that the prosecutors have made on the idea that what donald trump is accused of here in this case has to do with private conduct that it is not what he did as event sitting president of the united states, that what he was doing was as a, in his private capacity, in his personal capacity, trying to assess actually steal the election that he had lost. and so that's one of the things that you see already in some of the language that is written in this in this filing that the court has now released, again, just a few days before the justice department's 30 day quiet period goes into effect, guys? >> and paula right now will reading throug

introduce it and all of a sudden have everything stopped and have to go up and down again, smith and chutkan share the goal only one more trip up and down the federal courts. and it's for that reason that it's comprehensive. but really, i think it's a mistake to try to look for any glimmers of smith's case he's just putting everything in there that could matter in an immunity determinations. so you do see it, however, as a kind smart chess move yeah, almost a forced, however, chess move because she now has to call balls and strikes for dozens, hundreds of different possible pieces of evidence. and that includes evidence that could come in or could not come in depending on what se trump does, what it isn't as a kind of revelation as the former brief was of what's out there and what isn't out there. there's a little bit of new stuff, at least it was new to me about the financing of january 6. otherwise, it's exactly what we already knew. >> and it looks like or when it appears as though judge chutkan was prepared for this argument by the trump team, that this is election interference by releas

judge chutkan just releasing additional evidence gathered by special counsel jack smith about the formersident's actions ahead of the january 6th attack. ken dilanian has been digging through. it's 1,800 pages that have been released. ken, i don't envy you that. it has to be fascinating. these are the pages the trump lawyers tried so strongly to prevent from being seen. >> they did. it's not just me. we have a team of readers at nbc news pouring through to see if there are new morsels in here. so far, the vast majority of the pages are fully redacted. that's all the sensitive material involving grand jury testimony, fbi interviews. that's unfortunate. it would have been great to see that. what we are seeing are mostly materials that have been in the public record. i have to say, just reading through, it's really rather remarkable. for example, i was reading through the so-called eastman memo, the plan by lawyer john eastman for mike pence to throw the election to the house of representatives, to stand up there and say that the election is in dispute because there are different sets of st

that's again, part of what they are going to try to bring this in court now, judge tanya chutkan is the one who decided to release these documents. the former president has argued that this is election interference 18 days from the election. why are you putting this out now? she responded to that to that with this statement, she said, if the court withheld information that the public otherwise had a right to access solely because of the potential political consequences of releasing it that withholding could itself cost institute, or appear to be election interference. in other words, the public has a right to see this information and therefore, this is why it is coming out. now all right. evan, thank you so much for taking us through that. let's bring in cnn legal commentator tim parlatore, a former lawyer for donald trump, and tim, as we noted, nearly all of the pages out of nearly 2000 appear to be completed italy redacted. i wonder if you think this actually has the effect that the trump team was worried that it would i don't think it does. >> i mean, i went through them briefly myse

evidence until after november 5, say would amount to election interference chutkan ruled this quote, if the court withheld information that the public otherwise had a right to access solely because of the potential political consequences of releasing it that withholding could itself constitute or appear to be election interference, something to keep an eye on throughout the day today but let's talk about last night, the al smith catholic charity dinner is a chance for presidential candidates to trade in rallies and barbs for jokes, and trying to take themselves quite so seriously. >> last night, donald trump appeared at the regular dinner, vice president kamala harris did not opting instead to campaign in battleground wisconsin, the vice president did, however, send in a video taking some jabs at her opponent with some help from a very famous catholic school girl, molly shannon's character mary katherine gallagher is there anything that you think that maybe i shouldn't bring up tonight we'll don't lie. vow shall not bear false witness to that debris indeed, especially their neighbors

should not be releasing new evidence thousands of pages, just a few days before an election, judge chutkan rejected that. she says, it's simply it's not my concern whether there's an election or campaign or carrying on in the normal course of business. and the judges, we're usually prevails killing given how heavily redacted this is the evidence why did trump's lawyers fight so hard for her to not release it or are they just instructed to fight hard against anything jack smith wants? >> they find a lot. >> there is a political argument that they want to make. what elie just said about the election interference. but remember, all of this is expected to go back through the appeals courts up to the supreme court and they're trying to make the point over and over again as much as they can in the record that judge tanya chutkin is not doing this, right? she shouldn't have had that brief last week released. that hell, it's the narrative of all of this evidence. the evidence now should not be in the record. all of this, they want ultimately to say to the appeals court this case should be dismisse

so i think to look at judge chutkan or the doj here is misguided for anyone to do. and we must remember, the public has a right of access to the court system. the public has a right to understand in any case what is happening, and especially in the case of this kind of national importance, so we should actually be happy that this has been unsealed because the public should have this information. >> the question is, it is when it is unsealed and there is no doubt a fact that we're less than 30 days away from an election. >> well, as i think judge chutkan said at one of his first court appearances, the former president, he is defendant trump in front of her, not president trump. the fact that in his private capacity he is seeking another office, that is his choice. first and foremost he must answer for the crimes he's being charged with. >> danny, how are you seeing this from a defense perspective? what do you think are the main arguments to rebut these 165 pages? >> sure. thinking like a defense attorney, one of the things you'll expect is number one they'll argue th

this one day after judge tanya chutkan in washington, d.c.d a lengthy motion from a special counsel jack's myth laying out in detail by donald trump is not immune from criminal prosecution for his attempts to steal the 2020 election. dreaming that is barb mcqueen the author of the incredible book attack with ferment in and how disinformation is sabotaging america. and in msnbc legal analyst. i love this filing and this motion for immunity. i tweeted that it kind of reads like a superseding indictment. i wanted to get into this with you. unlike normal motions, we do not see so much facts and evidence set forth. that was 85 pages of this 165 page filing. >> this was an x-ray filing but is exactly what the court has asked for. the supreme court in july ruled that a former president is immune from criminal prosecution official acts taken while in office but not an official or private acts. it fell upon jack smith to do exactly that task. and to layout all of the evidence in this case. each of the alleged facts and all the evidence they used to pr

judge chutkan, not the justice department, just playing more cases were she coined in mind, trump is directing his anger toward the justice department are we going to see more before the election? it's very possible there could be more evidenced on that comes out of this next couple of days. so what to wait and see alright. zach cohen. thank you very much for being with us this morning. i really appreciate your reporting. rest of panel is coming back with very shortly straight ahead here on cnn this morning, president biden will not step in to stop the dock workers strike. that's just what i grow concerned. current about the port stoppages impact on the supply chain, plus explosions rocked beirut as israel weighs a response to iran, former trump national security adviser john bolton joins but since we discussed how the white house should address the counter attacks and after debate night, the running mates return to the trail and the midmeta western nice is suddenly not so nice. >> the tv moments that took culture over the edge. >> people are watching and then our world change he had

and judge chutkan sets some deadlines up in october for responses but this this is really its opening that pandora's box, it's allowing people to go down that rabbit hole because the amount of information here is really allowing within reason jack smith to try his case in public. but i remind people that this isn't jack smith doing i mean, he had to respond to the supreme court saying that there is immunity for his official acts. and then there's those that are within the duty of the president that are proceed and really are are going to be subject to immunity. so we had to do this. he had to put this forth for the court and it the court's decision not jack smith's decision ultimately, to present this to the public and allow the public to see it subject to some redactions. but it doesn't change the timeline in the sense of having a trial by in november. that's not happening we will see, but there are a lot of details in this case and the prosecutor putting its evidence sort of out there for the public to see jeremy saland. >> thank you so much. elie honig. always a pleasure. thank you

judge chutkan unsealed all of this. there's a purpose there. i wonderth what you think what happens now. the public is digesting it. it's heavily redacted or partially redacted. trump gets to file a response. where do we go from here? >> one thing that's been notable to me is trump's lawyers have said we get a chance to cross examine the witnesses. youin can't just take this on t papers. we get to question these witnesses and confront them. and presumably for a number of these witnesses the way they're characterized in the filing is not the way trump is going to characterize them. forze example, eric hirschman w is not identified by name, but you can read between the lines and figure out who he is, he is described as a conduit between the campaign and the white house. but at one point in 2020 he's actually working in the white house. so they're goingal to say, no, , he's a white house guy. none of this was within the campaign and the candidacy. and with mike pence i think it'll be a similar calculus. those witnesses in particular important beca

and you know, judge chutkan, the judge and washington, d.c., who released the filing, she's now got the really difficult job of trying to decide which actions by donald trump were presidential and which ones were personal, and the problem is, for donald trump, the line between public service and self- service, is nonexistent. >> okay but the document is supposed to help her, the judge, decide which parts of the indictment survive, so how much do you think prosecutors can save here? >> i think they can save everything. it's a totally compelling document. trump is going to try and file his brief and it's due on october 17th but his lawyers were asking for more time, no surprise there. they are the king of delay, asking for five more weeks, jack smith will respond to the filing and judge chutkan will decide but i don't think this is actually very difficult, i think the case for the president, having any constitutional powers in this area, is nonexistent, but she will decide, it'll go to the court of appeals and it may even go back to the us supreme court. all of this is part of donald trum

it is useful to remember the reason this is public is because judge chutkan denied donald trump's motion that he was making opposing this ever being anything that we could see. he continued to make motions saying no one should ever see this. it was rejected in a written decision by the judge today and she then released to this, so that is why we have it, over his opposition and now that we can see it we know why it is that he did not want anyone to see this. the same way that richard nixon didn't want anyone to see those tapes. >> tim heaphy you tried to get mike pence's testimony at the january 6 committee. he refused to testify, unlike our next guest tonight coming up, cassidy hutchinson. as you read the vice president's testimony here as it is relayed by jack smith and it is not all of it, it is just the amount that he thought he needed to lay in the essence of the crimes here. the vice president on the witness stand would certainly be saying a lot more than what we see here, but what was it like for you to read the vice president story that you were trying to get and could not get at

i mean, honig also wrote that judge chutkan is i trying to have it both ways too.laims not to care about the coming election despite her earlier effort toss fast track this case before the election. she gotchastized by the supreme court. so, you know, when you see what's going on, how do you stop it? >> first of all, i think how you stop it is going to be a massive rebuke to this behavior on november 5th. that's ultimately how we have to stop it, liz. the american people have to be -- elizabeth: wait a minute if, timeout. he's violating the constitutional rights of donald trump. [laughter] he's tainting the -- >> they're been violating them for years. elizabeth: i know. but what about disbarment? >> i would be for any of the above. i mean, this goes back to when donald j. trump wins and is sworn back into office in january of 202025, there have to be consequences for this type of behavior, liz, for there to actually be a restoration of a talking to usual republic. this sort of gross, overtly political abusing of our legal system, there have to be consequences inclu

order bringing his anti trump campaign advertisement, because that's what it is, and judge tanya chutkanet him get away with it. she's cheering him on. it's shameful sean. >> sean: when we come back jimmy failla reacts kamala harris's cringe pre taped skit at last night's al smith durn. it was bad. plus a seemingly taped conversation between barack obama and joe biden goes viral. hmm. what were they talking about. was it kamala? i retouched all my wedding photos, and it was even affecting my health. i trusted you because you specialize in dental implants. you created a permanent solution and customized my teeth so it still felt like me. my new teeth have improved my life and changed my future. - thank you. - you're so welcome. finance the smile you want for as low as one forty eight a month per arch. schedule a free consultation. from the first day of kindergarten through the day they graduate high school, in california, 38% of students attend a public school that fails to meet minimum health standards. prop 2 will fund urgent repairs at local schools. protect kids from toxic mold and as

what he was actually worried about, and judge asked for discovery about foreign influence, and judge chutkan dismissed that out of hand. it doesn't match up with what he was publicly expressing at the time. that's not really the reason that he was making these false claims about election fraud, so this case is continuing to chug on, even as we are less than three weeks out from the election going forward. there's going to be a deadline just after the election for the trump team, and then there will be another ruling from judge chutkan down the line about whether this case continues, ultimately might go for the supreme court. all of that depends if donald trump wins the 2024 election. >> that's going to do it for us this hour. our coverage continues with "katy tur reports" right now. ♪♪ >>> good to be with you. i'm katy tur. 20 days until the election, and voters have a bevy of revealing interviews to chew over as both donald trump and vp kamala harris get out of their comfort zone. for donald trump, it was actually speaking to voters, answering questions from women at a town hall in georgia,

that continues up to this day in social media posts, continues to go on the attack against judge chutkan, who we should note was the one who decided to release this redacted immunity brief from special counsel jack smith, as well as, of course, the special counsel jack smith as well. take a listen to donald trump last night. >> he's a deranged person. he is a person who is trying and he works for kamala, and he works for joe. this was a weaponization of government, and that's why it was released 30 days before the election. and it's nothing new in there, by the way. nothing new. they rigged the election, i didn't rig the election. >> it's worth noting that donald trump over the course of the last several months has repeatedly alleged, quote, election interference on the part of american domestic answers against him and his campaign. there has been no evidence of any cheating in this election, and no evidence of any of the allegations that anybody has acted illegally, and that of course goes for federal judge, judge chutkan, who is overseeing this federal election interference case. these

the problem that judge chutkan identifies is, well, even if this so-called evidence of concerns about does, you're just speculating that it does. but even if it existed, you can't say you actually relied on it or you even knew about it. so, you have not shown that there is any way in which this really helps your case, and therefore i'm not letting you have that evidence. >> okay, let's turn to donald trump's georgia election case, a new development there. fulton county district attorney fani willis is asking an appeals court to allow her to reinstate some of the counts that had been thrown out by the judge in this case. what does this all mean? >> so, the counts that judge mcafee in georgia said have to be quashed are the counts of soliciting a public officer to violate his oath. and that is an oath under the u.s. constitution and the georgia constitution. but there is a ton of -- that's a lengthy indictment, there's a lot of detail there about the conduct in which these defendants engaged in. but what the judge said is missing is essentially the information about how it violated an o