of course ciardi knew them and has been talking to them.so i think this is really what because entrepreneurs starting something new -- in many ways i was in a lucky position because i was in the schoolcommissars it's getting a prototype and test really quickly within several weeks time of what made sense and what didn't makes sense. and so that was something to the extent that we can make that more systemic so much printer is a don't have to be principles and safe schools can the feedback. i think that is critical. i will say one of the challenges is from sort of my side, looking at the prospect of the result made public. on the one hand they like it because they would be very strong. at the same time can i also am a big proponent of building started movement in the main concept kind that is you are not going to have the right answer when he starred as much per number. you basically take a leap, have an initial idea and then you are practically learning and figuring out of the things you do wrong to try to create product markets that save.