we see now our present-day cincinnatus did not pick up the plow when he lay down the sword. >> cincinnatusas the roman who left his farm to become a general in the war. when the war was over, he went back to be a farmer. that doesn't happen today. >> no, it doesn't. the vast majority of generals seem to end up on the boards of defense contractors. >> talk a little bit about what you call this strange relationship between silicon valley and the government, and how it fits into the deep state. >> well, the national security agency could not do what it does, the cia could not do what it does, without silicon valley. now, silicon valley, unlike the defense contractors, mostly sells to private individuals and to companies. it's not a big government vendor. however, its services are necessary. and de facto, they have become a part of the nsa's operations. i'm sure the ceo's of some of these companies try to obscure the fact that this has mostly been voluntary for many years. >> you mean the surveillance? >> the surveillance. >> the gathering of information of unknowing citizens. >> absolutely. >